Assault Matrices, with a Digression on Alchemy wrote: [16:23] Gadigan: Assault Matrix
[16:23] Gadigan: Matrix Keeper
[16:23] Gadigan: Assault Matrixes focus on applying Mind to Ranged Attacks.
[16:24] Gadigan: They create lots of small nodes or points, encircle things with them, and then fire from those points
[16:24] Gadigan: Though they can also be used as bits or options
[16:24] Gadigan: Circling around the wielder and firing
[16:24] Gadigan: They are good at disassembly
[16:24] Gadigan: And through disassembly, analysis
[16:24] Gadigan: They synergize with Hypertech
[16:24] Gadigan: And Technology
[16:25] Gadigan: A bit of Divination and Thief synergy, but not a ton
[16:25] The One True Pathaky: The Thief synergy through like, remote stealing or something?
[16:25] Gadigan: They can also be set up magically
[16:25] Gadigan: To disassemble/beam with magic
[16:25] Gadigan: Rather than ranged
[16:25] The One True Pathaky: /dissassembly-theft?
[16:25] Gadigan: Thief synergy is actually through hacking, mostly
[16:25] The One True Pathaky: Ah, interesting.
[16:25] Gadigan: Where you set the nodes up around a structure, hack from a bunch of points
[16:26] Gadigan: Though you could probably pull some 'send out the bits, tear apart, collect samples, return' on something that has inherently valuable organs or the like
[16:27] Gadigan: Questions on Assault Matrixes?
[16:27] Gadigan: I suppose they'd work well with Danmaku
[16:28] Gadigan: What with encircling something and then firing in patterns from points
[16:28] The Nottest of Daves: Technomancy
[16:28] Gadigan: Yes, they work well with it
[16:29] The Nottest of Daves: What about Alchemy or other somewhat science-adjacent spell classes?
[16:29] The Nottest of Daves: like Blight Magic
[16:30] The Nottest of Daves: or Artificer
[16:30] The Nottest of Daves: Biomancy
[16:31] Gadigan: Alchemy doesn't really synergize with it too much. The Matrix isn't as good at introducing/mixing/deploying things that aren't energy beams / its base ammo
[16:32] Gadigan: Blight Magic isn't particularly Science-adjacent - I can see the pollution angle, but Assault Matrixes are more from a sleek, advanced future than a dismal, dross-choked one
[16:32] Gadigan: Artificer has minor synergy, in that it could be used to upgrade one some, but isn't a major overlap
[16:32] Gadigan: Biomancy doesn't work too well with them - Assault Matrixes are typically inorganic
[16:32] The One True Pathaky: Blight Magic is more anti-druid, right?
[16:32] Gadigan: There are, of course, ways to get around all these non-synergies - weird sub-trees and skill sets
[16:32] The One True Pathaky: Like, still drawing from the natural magic well, just awful?
[16:33] Gadigan: But I'm talking baseline
[16:33] Gadigan: And yes, Blight Magic is anti-druid, draws from natural magic in an awful/decay/plague/insects/fungi direction
[16:34] Gadigan: In the CYOA version, Alchemy is grouped with Rogue stuff, Blight Magic on Priest, Artificer on Wizard
Biomancy would be the one on Scientist alongside Assault Matrix
[16:34] Gadigan: That's the other version, though
16:34] Gadigan: Including this bit so you get a bit more of an idea where things are
[16:34] Gadigan: Alchemy is interesting in that
[16:34] Gadigan: It can draw from science
[16:34] Gadigan: It can draw from magic
[16:34] Gadigan: It can draw from both
[16:34] Gadigan: It can draw from 'natural' components
[16:34] Gadigan: It can pull from most sources
[16:35] Gadigan: And is frequently not disabled on other worlds where other things are
[16:35] Gadigan: You pretty much have to either be running an entirely abstandard local set of metaphysics
[16:35] Gadigan: Or specifically be shutting down alchemy
[16:35] Gadigan: To shut down alchemy
[16:35] Gadigan: Now, that doesn't mean it's good against everything or that it gets around defenses well
[16:35] Gadigan: It's not. It's a base subtype thing (that isn't Ethereal Magic) and doesn't have problems being resisted
[16:36] Gadigan: But
[16:36] Gadigan: It's hard to actually turn off
[16:36] Gadigan: Artifice, similarly, can work some with tech, even if at a baseline it skews more magic
[16:36] Gadigan: And is hard-ish to broadly shut down
[16:36] Gadigan: Though sub-branches are easier to shut down
[16:36] Gadigan: Than Alchemy is
[16:37] Gadigan: You could turn off the magic portion, or the tech portion, or if you hit both, it's pretty dead in the water
[16:37] Gadigan: Whereas alchemy isn't
[16:38] Gadigan: Psychic environments - mind realms - are probably the most common thing capable of turning off alchemy
[16:38] Gadigan: And even then
[16:38] Gadigan: There's mind-alchemist sub branches that don't go down and let the other stuff stay up
[16:38] The One True Pathaky: So Alchemy's a good "sticky" magic class in that it's based in most conventional systems of reality
[16:38] Gadigan: Correct
Bailartixes wrote:[16:40] Gadigan: Circling back to the weapons list, next up is the Bailartix
[16:40] Gadigan: Weapon of the Soldreidrethanoi
[16:40] Gadigan: Probably one of the oddest base weapon types
[16:40] Gadigan: Has two parts - the staff/handle and the blade/spinning object
[16:40] Gadigan: Spinning object hovers above the handle while at rest, slowly spinning
[16:40] Gadigan: Gets released and directed
[16:40] Gadigan: Usually with the second hand
[16:40] Gadigan: Sometimes with the same hand holding the stick
[16:41] Gadigan: Sometimes the mind or a preset series of commands
[16:41] Gadigan: On rare occasions it's intelligent
[16:41] Gadigan: Spinning bit goes off in a pattern, slicing through things/cutting them up (or smash-dashing them if a spinning ball or something)
[16:41] Gadigan: (Blades are more common than balls)
[16:42] Gadigan: (with the whole blade being edged - no handle since the handle is the part it spins above rather than part of the blade itself)
[16:42] Gadigan: On the directed arc
[16:42] Gadigan: Once the attack arc is finished
[16:42] Gadigan: By default it returns to above the handle bit
[16:42] Gadigan: But
[16:42] Gadigan: They're good at staying out in swooping patterns
[16:42] Gadigan: They're good at using for repeated attacks and repeated actions
[16:43] Gadigan: They can apply both mind and spirit
[16:43] Gadigan: Directed mentally or with magical power
[16:43] Gadigan: They're good at carrying or moving effects
[16:43] Gadigan: Carry buffs from the wielder to allied targets
[16:43] Gadigan: Carry debuffs or negative effects from wielder to opponents
[16:43] Gadigan: Hit something, take something from it, move it to something else
[16:44] Gadigan: Associations with both theft and charity
[16:44] Gadigan: Stronger associations on the charity side
[16:44] Gadigan: And better at just handing things out than stealing them
[16:44] The One True Pathaky: (Santa-fy them)
[16:44] Gadigan: But still good at the stealing
[16:44] The One True Pathaky: (Santadreidrethanoi)
[16:44] Gadigan: They'd actually synergize surprisingly well with Santas
[16:44] Gadigan: Haha
[16:44] Gadigan: Biggest class overlaps are Wizard and Sage
[16:44] Gadigan: Particularly good at carrying Wizard Magic effects
[16:45] Gadigan: But also pretty decent at Healer Magic and some other things
[16:45] Gadigan: Sage improves the Staff
[16:45] Gadigan: And the bottom half of the weapon
[16:45] Gadigan: Is a staff 99%-ish of the time
[16:45] Gadigan: And can actually kind of be wielded like one while the blade is out there doing some repeating thing
[16:45] Gadigan: Also synergy with things that make someone good with video games
[16:45] The One True Pathaky: Can't wait for someone to rock a Xitraliab
[16:45] Gadigan: Not a build combo that's common in NPCs
[16:45] Gadigan: Because they tend to not be from the same worlds
[16:45] Gadigan: But
[16:46] The One True Pathaky: (Hold a ball, send a stick to bonk people)
[16:46] Gadigan: The bottom half is a controller
[16:46] Gadigan: Haha
[16:46] Gadigan: The weapon type is also good at
[16:46] Gadigan: Being confusing
[16:46] Gadigan: As a serious, narrative thing, even if it's also a joke based on it being one of the most bizarrely-named and BA-unique weapons
[16:47] Gadigan: Techniques using the weapon tend to be annoying to analyze and counter
[16:47] Gadigan: Relying on strange principles that the weapons sometimes carry with them rather than being in the area already
[16:47] Gadigan: And being from fewer worlds than a lot of other base subtype things
[16:47] Gadigan: Questions on the Bailartix?
[16:47] The One True Pathaky: Channeler?
[16:47] The One True Pathaky: Thinking about it's association with transference
[16:48] Gadigan: Yes, that synergizes well with it, particularly the 'move effects' or 'mass distribute effects' bits
[16:48] The One True Pathaky: How about War Magic for the "Exploits Repeating Effects" part?
[16:48] Gadigan: Probably helps the steal bit even more than Thief does
[16:48] Gadigan: Hm
[16:48] Gadigan: Interesting question there
[16:48] The One True Pathaky: War Magic is usually much more AoE
[16:49] Gadigan: I think there's potential for mutual boosting, but not synergy, if that makes sense - if someone is good at both Bailartix wielding and at casting War Magic, then casts War Magic that repeats, using the Bailartix as a vector, it gets oomph from both, and they don't work against each other, but they don't naturally flow together and wouldn't help much at lower proficiency levels
[16:49] The One True Pathaky: Gotcha
[16:50] Gadigan: I'll note that in the CYOA system
[16:50] Gadigan: Assault Matrix is grouped as a subweapon of Drone
[16:50] Gadigan: And Bailartix as a subweapon of Staff
[16:50] Gadigan: In that format
[16:51] Gadigan: Having a parent weapon-type extends some of its skills and boosts to the subweapons
[16:51] Gadigan: And the others in reverse to the parent weapon, to a smaller degree
[16:51] Gadigan: That's more prominent in that version of the BA system
[16:51] Gadigan: But
[16:51] Gadigan: It's based on associations that are present in the BA
[16:51] Gadigan: So
[16:51] Gadigan: Drone class applies stuff to Assault Matrixes (and a bit in reverse)
[16:52] Gadigan: And Staff class to Bailartix (and a bit in reverse)
[16:52] Gadigan: Drone is nonbase in the BA, which makes it wonkier to get
[16:52] Gadigan: But
[16:52] Gadigan: Still applies
[16:52] The One True Pathaky: The drone connection helps me understand more of the intent behind the weapon there
[16:52] The One True Pathaky: Er, on the Assault Matrix side
[16:53] Gadigan: Alternate classname for Assault Matrix from the CYOA
[16:53] Gadigan: Is Calculator
[16:53] Gadigan: Instead of Matrix Keeper
[16:53] Gadigan: Good to hear!
[16:53] Gadigan: So keep that in mind - Calculator is probably going to be a subtree here on the BA
[16:53] Gadigan: There's math effects and pattern effects in there
Axes, with a Digression on Shouts as a Potential Spell Type wrote: [16:53] Gadigan: Axe
[16:54] Gadigan: Ravager as the class
[16:54] Gadigan: Bailartix was a Wizard weapon
[16:54] Gadigan: Assault Matrix for Scientist
[16:54] Gadigan: Axe goes to Warrior
[16:54] Caelzeph: One of the classes of ANGRY
[16:54] Gadigan: It's the berserker weapon
[16:54] Gadigan: Yes
[16:54] Gadigan: The axe hits hard
[16:54] Gadigan: But it hits wildly
[16:54] Gadigan: It chops through defenses
[16:55] Gadigan: Leaves big, exploitable holes in armor and wounds
[16:55] Caelzeph: (Insert Random Axe of Charity clause here)
[16:55] Gadigan: Synergizes with Wounded
[16:55] The One True Pathaky: (Sometimes has wild wind-up)
[16:55] Gadigan: Gives high attack boosts for defense penalties
[16:55] Gadigan: Gives attack boosts and mass attacks in exchange for having trouble backing down or possibly striking allies
[16:55] Gadigan: Axes are particularly good against Plants
[16:56] Gadigan: And there's anti-Plant subtrees
[16:56] Gadigan: Which themselves have resource-harvesting subtrees
[16:56] Gadigan: To obtain more wood/better wood
[16:56] Gadigan: Axe is also good against Animals, particularly wolves, particularly disguised wolves
[16:56] Gadigan: Pretty much entirely because of the Riding Hood connection
[16:56] Gadigan: Axe tilts towards Chaos, whereas Mace tilts towards Law
[16:57] Gadigan: Axe and Mace are basically opposed weapon types, synergize badly with each other by default
[16:57] Gadigan: (But can be forced to get along with the right linkups)
[16:57] Caelzeph: (Meanwhile, I expect Mace and Spray have some weird linkups)
[16:57] Gadigan: (Hah)
[16:57] Gadigan: Probably if you have wounding puns, yeah
[16:57] Caelzeph: I'll add that to The List
[16:58] Gadigan: Axes are good at criticals
[16:58] Gadigan: And at applying effects when they pull off critical hits
[16:58] Gadigan: Also wounded sub-effects that lop off limbs, disable parts of targets
[16:58] Kitsune106: like wounded maimed and other subtreees?
[16:58] Gadigan: Yes
[16:58] Gadigan: Axe synergizes with
[16:58] Gadigan: Warlord
[16:59] Gadigan: Humanoids, particularly leaders when they are backed by large numbers, are good at using Axes
[16:59] Gadigan: This applies both to the Orc/Ogre half
[16:59] Gadigan: And the Dwarf half
[16:59] Gadigan: Not really fully halves
[16:59] Gadigan: But
[16:59] Gadigan: Style groups of common Humanoid types
[16:59] Gadigan: Other stuff
[16:59] Gadigan: Chaos, I mentioned before
[16:59] Gadigan: Xaos Xomptroller works well with Axes
[17:00] Gadigan: Fury works well with Axes
[17:00] Gadigan: Slayer synergizes with Axes some even though they aren't improvised
[17:00] Gadigan: Questions on Axes?
[17:00] Gadigan: Mountain King helps a bit - dwarf association
[17:00] Gadigan: Kinetic Emperor too - Axes are more 'physical' than a lot of other weapons
[17:01] The Nottest of Daves: are there Non-Warrior spell classes that play particularly well with Axes?
[17:01] Gadigan: Though, interestingly, Maces are 'physical' too, even if they carry non-physical authority
[17:01] Gadigan: Hm
[17:01] Gadigan: None come to mind.
Is there a Shouts spell type?
[17:01] Gadigan: Because if there's one of those, it'd work with Berserker mode
[17:02] The Nottest of Daves: other than assumedly Anarchomancer, with the Chaos-connection
[17:02] Gadigan: I feel like if there isn't a Shouts type
[17:02] Gadigan: There should be
[17:02] Caelzeph: Bardic Music might have some subtree for it
[17:02] Caelzeph: Or Chant
[17:02] The Nottest of Daves: I don't believe there is, but yeah, Chant and Bard exist
[17:02] Gadigan: Anarchomancer, despite the Chaos connection, only synergizes minorly well with Axes - they're too not-casty for it
[17:02] The Nottest of Daves: interesting
[17:02] Gadigan: Mmmm, file Shout away as a potential Warrior spell type
[17:02] Gadigan: We need more of those
[17:03] Caelzeph: Chant would seem to be the most likely. Alternatively, and weirdly, Triple Magic
[17:03] The Nottest of Daves: FUS
[17:03] The Nottest of Daves: RO
[17:03] The Nottest of Daves: DAH
[17:03] Caelzeph: (Although it'd likely need a specific subtree for faster-casting shout-variety spells)
[17:05] The One True Pathaky: So Axes: Super-straightfoward, highly physical weapons
[17:06] Gadigan: Yes
[17:06] The One True Pathaky: Could conceptually surprise a more esoteric opponent if deployed correctly, but would struggle against full-gambit mage types
[17:06] The One True Pathaky: Is that an accurate assessment?
[17:06] Gadigan: Yeah
Bladecanes, the Umbrella Subtree, and a Digression on Narrative Manipulation through Classes wrote: [17:07] Gadigan: Bladecane
[17:07] Gadigan: Class Gentleman Assassin
[17:08] Gadigan: Class is just 'Gentleman' in the CYOA format
[17:08] Gadigan: Rogue weapon
[17:08] Gadigan: Sub-weapon of Trick Weapon in the other format
[17:08] Gadigan: Good at being hard-to-detect / being ignored
[17:08] Gadigan: You can carry bladecanes through weapon checks more easily than you should be able to - they just sort of fail on them, particularly with enough investment in the class
[17:09] Gadigan: Good at initial surprise strikes, damage plummets sharply over time
[17:09] Gadigan: Killing one target after another quickly stalls the falloff
[17:09] Gadigan: As long as they're significant enough
[17:09] Gadigan: But as soon as something starts stalling you
[17:09] Gadigan: Their offensive potential is shot
[17:09] Gadigan: After that point, they get a bit more duelist-y and more of a finesse weapon
[17:10] Gadigan: But are still worse at at that than standard lighter dueling swords
[17:10] Gadigan: Synergize with Swordsman heavily
[17:10] Gadigan: With Shadow Blade a moderate amount
[17:10] Gadigan: With Thief a moderate amount
[17:10] Gadigan: With Slayer heavily
[17:10] Gadigan: With Umbramancer a moderate amount
[17:10] Gadigan: With Assassin a moderate amount - but not in terms of techniques or special attacks - they just get a generic potency/lethality/stealth boost from investment in that
[17:11] Gadigan: Better with Clothes, workable with Light Armor, actively lose power if you've got Heavy/Grand/Power Armor
[17:11] The Nottest of Daves: What about Disguises?
[17:11] Gadigan: Synergize well with Disguises, yes, good call
[17:12] The One True Pathaky: I'd have thought they'd synergize with assassin more since they rely so much on the unexpected-alpha strike
[17:12] Gadigan: Work well with Poisons, but not Diseases - they lose power around filth, both if wielded by or against something filthy
[17:12] Gadigan: They require a degree of classiness to work optimally
[17:12] Gadigan: And they do help with the alpha strike
[17:12] Caelzeph: One of the Fancy Classes, alongside Teapot
[17:12] Gadigan: It's just
[17:12] Gadigan: The actual Assassin moves are thrown
[17:12] Gadigan: And bladecanes very much aren't
[17:13] Gadigan: Indeed fancy, yes
[17:13] Gadigan: Minor boosts from Nobility, Wealth, Commerce, Grandeur, etc
[17:13] Gadigan: Umbrellas are nested in it in the BA - those are more ranged, pretty much thanks to Penguin
[17:13] Gadigan: But those are a sub-tree
[17:13] Gadigan: And may be addressed seperately at some point
[17:15] The Nottest of Daves: Can we discuss the Umbrella subtree? Because that's what Enrica actually carries around
[17:15] Gadigan: Yes
[17:15] Gadigan: Umbrellas
[17:15] Gadigan: Actual weapon subtype in the CYOA version
[17:15] Gadigan: Class there is Investigator
[17:16] Gadigan: Good at a mix of magical, ranged, and melee
[17:16] Gadigan: You can cast from it like a wand
[17:16] Gadigan: Pop it open as a shield
[17:16] Gadigan: Actually very good at shielding things and serving as a focus to project AOE shields
[17:16] Gadigan: The melee is like a weaker version of the standard Bladecane
[17:16] Gadigan: Good at injecting a lethal poison or getting a single crit-hit in
[17:16] Gadigan: But can't carry a string of kills
[17:17] Gadigan: And isn't as damaging
[17:17] Gadigan: Ranged fires stuff from the umbrella
[17:17] Gadigan: Like the Penguin
[17:17] Gadigan: Also good at deploying tricks
[17:17] Gadigan: Project a cloud of fog
[17:17] Gadigan: Fly away on it
[17:17] Gadigan: Etc
[17:17] Gadigan: Helps with movement like that
[17:17] Gadigan: Pogo-umbrella is even possible
[17:17] The One True Pathaky: in fact, imperative
[17:17] Gadigan: Umbrella is also good at defending against
[17:17] Gadigan: Environmental attacks and AOEs
[17:17] Gadigan: Better than against other things
[17:18] Gadigan: Umbrella also has the ability to trip up opponents if flipped around
[17:18] Gadigan: And is good at shielding a wielder while they assess targets
[17:18] Gadigan: Passively synergizes with and boosts Divination
[17:19] Gadigan: The downside of it being able to do all this is that it basically focuses on one thing at a time
[17:19] Gadigan: As a 'mode'
[17:19] Gadigan: And it can switch modes
[17:19] Gadigan: But it's bad at re-switching to modes within the same encounter or encounter string
[17:19] Gadigan: So you can use it for investigation, but once you start fighting, investgation boosts are down
[17:19] Gadigan: Once you switch from melee, it's bad at returning to melee
[17:20] Gadigan: Once you exit shielding stuff, it's outright awkward to re-deploy as a shield again and enemies are better at getting around it
[17:20] Gadigan: Once you stop firing ranged tricks, it is more apt to run out of ammo or be bad at ranged things
[17:20] Gadigan: So it can do a lot - and it can do the things fairly well
[17:20] Gadigan: But it can't resume thing you were doing recently but then stopped with ease
[17:20] Kitsune106: so, not a one trick pony, but needs running start and can't return easily to what moved from?
[17:21] Gadigan: Yes, bit less so on the running start (though that's a bit of a thing), but very much so on the other parts
[17:22] Gadigan: Notably, that can be overcome, not with normal stuff
[17:22] Gadigan: But with plot/narrative/story manipulation abilities
[17:22] Gadigan: You can unwrite that restriction using that sort of thing
[17:22] Gadigan: Gets jankier the more you do it in a single story, though - anti-momentum there
[17:23] Gadigan: Though doing it successfully across different stories
[17:23] Gadigan: Carries positive momentum still
[17:23] Gadigan: Like normal
[17:23] Kitsune106: it encourages sticking to a single thing, or using successive.. suprrises
[17:23] Gadigan: Yes
[17:23] Kitsune106: like each use/mode is a surprise gadget/trick that once you go back too, is known and anticipated to be countered
[17:23] Gadigan: Correct
[17:24] Gadigan: Trick Weapons in general have a weakness to Divination
[17:24] Gadigan: Umbrella actually has the least out of the bunch
[17:24] Gadigan: Because of its detective synergy
[17:24] Gadigan: So even if they scan you and know it's a multi-function umbrella, it still retains use until used.
[17:25] Gadigan: The bladecane less so - it can have lethality shut off by a good scan (though it actively resists scan attempts to pick up its presence, so it's a rough hurdle)
[17:28] The Nottest of Daves: 1. What classes do story-manipulating abilities tend to live in? Glory seems likely, but also seems like the opposite angle from where you want to approach it from, since that would make you and your tricks more well known, rather than less...
[17:28] The Nottest of Daves: 2. Do the class synergies for Umbrellas differ from that of standard bladecanes?
[17:29] Caelzeph: It's very helpful to have the light-on-details classes fleshed out, so yes, I'm enjoying it!
[17:29] The Nottest of Daves: 3. What spell classes synergize well with Bladecanes? Which with Umbrellas specifically?(edited)
[17:41] Caelzeph: (If requests are possibly, I'd like to hear more about Souls and Teapots later)
19:34] Gadigan: Back for a brief bit. Probably not getting too into answering things during the short period pre-dinner, but I see the questions and intend to answer them at some point.
[19:39] Gadigan: Story manipulation doesn't strongly live in any outlined classes too much. There's sub-trees in the Book, Conceptual, Fate, and Dream classes, but none of them do it natively. Maybe more will come to mind as I go through things. That theoretical Quill weapon might work well with it.
[19:40] Gadigan: It's a hard thing to get - around T3 in difficulty, but without the inherent oomph if not living in a T3 class
[19:40] Gadigan: Still powerful in the right circumstances, though
[19:40] Gadigan: Umbrellas synergize a lot better with Shield
[19:40] Gadigan: Geomancy too
[19:40] The One True Pathaky: Stage, maybe?
[19:40] Gadigan: Regular Bladecanes don't synergize with those, but Umbrellas do
[19:40] Gadigan: Ah, yeah, Stage would have some
[19:41] The Nottest of Daves: What about Mystery?
[19:41] Gadigan: Spell classes for Bladecane - Thief Arts, Umbramancer
[19:41] Gadigan: Umbrellas - Those two, but to a lesser degree, plus Geomancer and Diviner
[19:41] The One True Pathaky: Whimsy for making things more kiddish?
[19:41] Gadigan: Sub-spec of Diviner, though - the Detective one
[19:42] The One True Pathaky: Sorry, keep thinking about classes with Story-power
[19:42] Gadigan: Mystery would have some on worlds that are already story-based, but otherwise blurs reality in different ways
Whimsy would require something else alongside it. If you already had story-manipulation, it could tilt it.
[19:42] Gadigan: Heading back off, will return again, hopefully for more of this
[19:48] Caelzeph: Quill is definitely a thing I want to actually develop, especially as Cael has a Quill weapon
[19:48] Caelzeph: (Another possibility for story-manipulation: Clipboard, although that's more because it has reality-alteration as a purview)
[21:37] Gadigan: Back
[21:37] Gadigan: Yes - Clipboard falls into the category of able to do it with a supporting skillset or on a heavily narrative world, but not on its own without the proper setting
Books, with a Digression on Libram Magic, and a Discussion of the Wizard Group of Spell Classes wrote: [22:21] Gadigan: Book
[22:21] Gadigan: Class is Scholar
[22:21] Gadigan: It's a Wizard weapon
[22:21] Gadigan: Sits as a sub-weapon of 'Focus' on the CYOA version
[22:21] Gadigan: But there isn't a Focus weapon subtype on the BA at the moment
[22:21] Gadigan: It's a class that serves a few roles
[22:22] Gadigan: One is that it holds the majority of the general 'knowledge' abilities that aren't related to a specific subtype of entity or specific class field
[22:22] Gadigan: So knowledge about history, about metaphysics, about general trends across multiple spell classes, etc
[22:22] Gadigan: They're all bundled in Scholar
[22:22] Gadigan: It boosts Mind a lot
[22:22] Gadigan: But primarily attacks with SPI
[22:22] Gadigan: It is built to synergize well with spells in general
[22:22] Gadigan: Wizard Magic the most
[22:22] Gadigan: And other spell groups considered 'Wizardly'
[22:22] The One True Pathaky: "Understands the Causes of World War I" would be a Scholar ability
[22:22] Gadigan: But really magic as a whole
[22:23] Gadigan: Haha, yes, correct
[22:23] Gadigan: So Mind is the most-boosted stat, with Spirit second, but Spirit is the most-used, with Mind second
[22:23] The One True Pathaky: Forbidden Magic work well with it, I'd imagine?
[22:23] Gadigan: Boosts MP more than almost any other weapon type - that's one of its biggest trends among the base weapon subtypes
[22:23] Gadigan: Correct, Forbidden Magic does synergize very well with books
[22:24] Gadigan: Scholar also boosts Tome accessories
[22:24] Gadigan: Books can hold specific spells
[22:24] Gadigan: Which Scholar then boosts
[22:24] Gadigan: Or add spell slots
[22:24] Gadigan: Which Scholar also does
[22:24] Gadigan: Or come with the ability to spend an action to activate an effect
[22:24] Gadigan: And those sorts of effects, in RP, would generally count as spells and be boosted by the most-appropriate spell class on top of scholar
[22:25] Gadigan: The tradeoff for this is that the books don't have a particularly strong attack or defense profile on their own
[22:25] Gadigan: They're reliant on casting each turn to stay up to par in combat
[22:25] Gadigan: Otherwise you're in a more support role
[22:25] Gadigan: They pair well with one-handed staffs or wands
[22:26] Gadigan: And can assist with scans - including indirect scans - by acting as reference material
[22:26] Gadigan: If their theme matches the theme of spells cast (or one of the two is generic enough) you're good
[22:26] Gadigan: If you have one generic, the other can then be swayed to its theme
[22:26] Gadigan: If they're off theme - a book bound in flesh with decorations of bone trying to cast celestial light rays, for instance
[22:26] Gadigan: That gets penalized
[22:27] Gadigan: Books involve linguistics more than other spell-based weapon types, so silence hits harder for a book-wielder than it would a wand or staff wielder
[22:28] Gadigan: On the flip side, books can mix with Seer (the Robe class) to passively 'predict' ways to make the wearer seem less of a threat until they unleash something big/obvious, so a Robe-wearing Book-wielder in the back row can play support or do charged-up actions and attract a bit less aggro - it isn't a strong effect or one of the main things in the class, but it is a minor synergy that could provide the little nudge needed in a pinch
[22:29] Gadigan: Books, when defending, are better at defending against magic - it's possible to 'snatch it up' within the book sometimes
[22:29] Gadigan: On the flip side, they're pretty terrible at defending against melee, ranged, or high-tech stuff most of the time
[22:30] Gadigan: Synergy with Knowledge the most out of elements
[22:30] Gadigan: Magic too, though
[22:30] Gadigan: But Books can exist on not-highly-magical worlds and be themed to work as reference guides to technology and be used for casting hypertech or biomancy or something
[22:30] Gadigan: Questions on Books?
[22:31] The Nottest of Daves: A bit of an indirect question
[22:31] The Nottest of Daves: But what other spell classes fall under the "Wizardly" category?
[22:35] Gadigan: (Working on a response)
[22:35] The Nottest of Daves: (no worries, I wasn't expecting a short answer to such a broad question)
22:38] Gadigan: Particualrly: Abjuration, Divining, Enchantment, Gate Magic, Geomancy, Illusion Magic, Necromancy, Summoner Magic, Transmutation, Wizard Magic
But Also: Arcanist Magic, Artifice, Astral Magic, Force Magic, Golomancy
Semi-Priestly: Celestial Magic, Chaos Magic, Dark Magic, Demon Magic, Elemental Magic, Forbidden Magic, Ritual Magic
Special Cases: Channeling, Divining, Ethereal Magic, Shadow Magic, Technomancy
[22:38] Gadigan: So the first group is the core wizard stuff
[22:39] Gadigan: It's the D&D spell schools, with Conjuration split into Gate Magic and Summoner Magic, and with Geomancy added
[22:39] Gadigan: Arcanist Magic, Artifice, Astral Magic, Force Magic, and Golomancy are all solidly arcane
[22:39] Gadigan: Note that this is just the base ones right now
[22:40] Gadigan: The next line deals with planar entities - as such, those actually (for the most part - 1 sec on Ritual) get nested under 'Priest' instead of Wizard
[22:40] Gadigan: But they're varying degrees of 'also wizard'
[22:40] Gadigan: And don't tend to require worship for their core paths
[22:40] Gadigan: So Celestial tilts heavily priest, but also allows Wizards
[22:40] Gadigan: Chaos, Elemental, and Forbidden tilt more Wizard, even if grouped under Priest
[22:40] Gadigan: Elemental also ties with Mentalist and Monk
[22:41] Gadigan: It's pretty broad and unique
[22:41] Gadigan: In that it is the base for accessing a lot of stuff
[22:41] Gadigan: And is arcane in a lot of its practice
[22:41] Gadigan: But involves the invocation of nearby things
[22:41] Gadigan: But in a 'request' manner by default, with worship and command as alternatives
[22:41] Gadigan: But towards local elemental forces in general, rather than a specific, targeted force
[22:42] Gadigan: Dark Magic can be spun equally arcane or divine, but is generally one of the two at a time
[22:42] Gadigan: Demon Magic (and Rune and Glyph) would be equally arcane and divine, but ride the line and tend to count as both simultaneously
[22:42] Gadigan: Even if Demon and Rune are opposed to what would traditionally be considered divine forces
[22:42] Gadigan: Ritual Magic I'm waffling on grouping under Wizard or Priest
[22:42] Gadigan: But either way
[22:43] Gadigan: It can be spun in the other direction by those invested in it
[22:43] Gadigan: Sort of like Dark Magic
[22:43] Gadigan: But with individual spells
[22:43] Gadigan: Having their own kind of tilt
[22:43] Gadigan: Some are arcane rituals
[22:43] Gadigan: Some are divine rituals
[22:43] Gadigan: But either can be forced the other way most of the time by someone invested enough
[22:43] Gadigan: Then we have the weird bits
[22:43] Gadigan: Divining is core Wizard
[22:43] Gadigan: But there's sub-branches that aren't wizard at all
[22:43] Gadigan: Like Detective
[22:44] Gadigan: I've considered making some alt classes
[22:44] Gadigan: So people don't all have to invest in Diviner
[22:44] Gadigan: Because as things stand
[22:44] Gadigan: It's basically required for any good build
[22:44] Gadigan: I think it's probably going to stay Diviner on the BA
[22:44] Gadigan: But the CYOA version is likely getting spin-offs of it for at least some of the Mentalist, Monk, Priest, Rogue, Scientist, and Warrior archetypes
[22:45] Gadigan: Shadow Magic is like the semi-divine group
[22:45] Gadigan: But is semi-Rogue instead
[22:45] Gadigan: It lives inside the Rogue casting group rather than the Wizard group
[22:45] Gadigan: But is about equal parts both
[22:45] Gadigan: Technomancy ditto
[22:45] Gadigan: But with Scientist instead of Rogue
[22:45] Gadigan: Gah
[22:45] Gadigan: Need to add Scientist
[22:45] Gadigan: To that Diviner line above
[22:46] Gadigan: Edited
[22:46] Gadigan: Those are what I'm considering the core theme archetypes that people can be one or multiple of - Mentalist, Monk, Priest, Rogue, Scientist, Warrior, and Wizard
[22:46] Gadigan: Though there are some oddballs who aren't any
[22:46] Gadigan: That leaves Channeling and Ethereal
[22:46] Gadigan: Channeling is grouped under Mentalist in the CYOA
[22:46] Gadigan: It's kinda its own thing in the BA
[22:47] Gadigan: It works as a basis of so much stuff
[22:47] Gadigan: That it works basically everywhere
[22:47] Gadigan: You can approach it from almost any thematic avenue
[22:47] Gadigan: And apply it to most any build
[22:47] Gadigan: In different ways
[22:47] Gadigan: So it gets full boost from the Book
[22:47] Gadigan: But also works as other things
[22:47] Gadigan: And doesn't get shut down by standard antimagic
[22:47] Gadigan: And Ethereal
[22:47] Gadigan: Is Arcane
[22:47] Gadigan: Is under Wizard
[22:48] Gadigan: But is specced in getting around boundaries and restrictions
[22:48] Gadigan: So it ignores almost all standard antimagic
[22:48] The One True Pathaky: Channeler feels like the foundational "interact with the metaphysical universe" class
[22:48] Gadigan: Even though it totally is magic
[22:48] Gadigan: Correct, it is
[22:48] The One True Pathaky: Also "sharing is caring"
[22:48] Gadigan: It handles the linking of things to other things
[22:48] Gadigan: Separation of things
[22:48] Gadigan: Transfer of things
[22:48] Gadigan: It handles manipulation of raw mana
[22:48] Gadigan: Which includes XP, Gold, ambient mana, and entity spawning
[22:49] Gadigan: It also serves to link other classes together
[22:49] Gadigan: And to better facilitate the use of gear
[22:49] Gadigan: Also handles some environmental stuff by manipulating ley-lines, channeling the land's power, etc
[22:49] Gadigan: Although Geomancy does those last bits better
[22:51] Gadigan: Nonbase gets a bit iffier since I haven't thought through it as much
[22:51] Gadigan: Binder Magic is somewhat arcane, might go a bit divine too
[22:51] Gadigan: Blood Magic same boat, more arcane than divine, but bits of divine in there
[22:51] Gadigan: Contract Magic ditto blending
[22:51] Gadigan: Chant is a mix of Arcane, Divine, and Rogue
[22:52] Gadigan: Chronomancy is arcane - it'd work well with Book
[22:52] Gadigan: Dragon Magic is arcane, but doesn't use books as much (though it still works together some)
[22:52] Gadigan: Glyph and Rune as per notes above
[22:52] Gadigan: Litigamancy - not sure where I want to settle it category wise, but it involves enough paper that Books work well with it regardless
[22:53] Gadigan: Parallel Magic is arcane and similar to ritual, but with a more arcane tilt
[22:53] The Nottest of Daves: (GET THE BOOK OF GRUDGES)
[22:53] Gadigan: Spatial Magic would be arcane and work with Books
[22:53] Gadigan: (Haha)
[22:54] Gadigan: War Magic is arcane, but actually tends to be bad with books unless you get specific powers to rectify that
[22:54] Gadigan: Ancient Magic is arcane and works very well with Books
[22:54] Gadigan: Catastrophe Magic is mostly arcane, a bit divine, works with books
[22:54] Gadigan: Contingency Magic is arcane and works well with books
[22:54] Gadigan: Elder Magic is arcane and works with books
[22:55] Gadigan: Libram Magic outright requires books. It is extremely synergized with Scholar to the point where it'd be basically pointless without it
[22:55] Gadigan: Law of Tyranny isn't really arcane, but can use books
[22:55] Gadigan: Pan-Cosmic Haberdashery is arcane-ish, but would require books specifically for it to benefit from them, really
[22:55] Gadigan: That's the spell list
[22:55] Gadigan: Further questions building off of that (or in general?)
[22:57] The Nottest of Daves: I have some more questions about the archetypes in general, but I assume you want to keep it a little more focused on Books (or at least on Weapons)
[22:58] The Nottest of Daves: Aha
[22:58] The Nottest of Daves: I would appreciate a flavor-blurb on a couple of books, so we have a better idea of what sorts of things they work well with and what things they cause penalties on
[22:59] The Nottest of Daves: like the book bound in bone and human skin above
[22:59] The Nottest of Daves: Book 1. Text of Al Azif- (Weapon, Book, Darkness & Mystic, 85,000,000 Gold) +85,000 Magical Attack, +85,000 MIN, +85,000 SPI, +425,000 MP as a non-stacking bonus, Forbidden Magic spells cost wielder 850,000 less MP to cast, 5% inflicts Insanity, 20% Darkspawn Resistance
[23:01] The Nottest of Daves: (Being one of the few books that are obtainable as an enemy drop)
[23:01] Gadigan: That's the Necromicon. Pretty much literally.
[23:01] Gadigan: It's Forbidden Magic
[23:02] The Nottest of Daves: All Forbidden Magic, All The Time?
[23:02] The Nottest of Daves: Or does it play well with a few other things
[23:02] Gadigan: It works fine with other types of magic that don't conflict with Darkspawn. There's no problem with casting Necromancy or Wizard Magic, or Transmutation, or plenty of other stuff through it
[23:02] Gadigan: Celestial Magic is a no-go
[23:02] Gadigan: Enchantment is generally good, but beneficial enchantment might be weakened
[23:03] Gadigan: Mind control would have insanity as a side effect
[23:03] Gadigan: Summons would have a tendency to veer Cthuloid if random
[23:03] Gadigan: Summons and Transmutations could mutate in tentacly manners, but that wouldn't be a guarantee and would be easy to suppress
[23:04] Gadigan: Geomancy to unknowable ancient cities, deep seas (and ruins therein), caverns, dark woods, swamps would be boosted
[23:04] Gadigan: Geomancy to sunny, chill places would be reduced
[23:04] Gadigan: Those sorts of things
[23:04] Gadigan: Does that help?
[23:04] The Nottest of Daves: Indeed
[23:04] Gadigan: Excellent
[23:05] The Nottest of Daves: Taking a look at the shop for a few other samples
[23:05] Gadigan: Sure
[23:05] The Nottest of Daves: %Planetary of Knowledge's Tome- (Weapon, Book, Knowledge & Magic, 190,000,000 Gold) +190,000 Magical Attack, +1,900,000 MP as a non-stacking bonus, +190,000 MIN, +190,000 SPI, 160% Critical, 260% To Hit, Wielder's allies gain +8,000 MIN and SPI as a non-stacking bonus, Wielder must be Level 40 or greater
[23:06] The Nottest of Daves: That one's a combo off of another Planetary drop, so also relatively likely for people to randomly have/be able to make
[23:08] Gadigan: That one, thanks to the 'Knowledge' part is pretty broad. The 'Planetary' part makes it work better with divine stuff. Boost to things that would impart knowledge or boost mental things, boost to divination. Would apply Book to Divine Magic, Healer Magic, etc. It'd take a minor hit on casting demon magic, dark magic, etc, unless the wielder was an evil (or dark-thematic'd non-evil) deity or worshipped such a being.
[23:08] Gadigan: After which point it'd actually help with the that-deity-appropriate ones
[23:09] The Nottest of Daves: Now you've got me wondering what Dulcinea's themes are for such deity purposes
[23:09] The Nottest of Daves: XD
[23:11] Gadigan: Haha
[23:11] Gadigan: Going to make a call that Necromancy works on that book unless the wielder's deity directly opposes it
[23:12] Gadigan: They're up to you, but probably are similar to her build
[23:12] Gadigan: Mad science, nightmares, stars, hope to an extent
[23:12] Gadigan: Using darkness for positive purposes
[23:13] The Nottest of Daves: Thanks!
[23:14] Gadigan: np
[23:14] The Nottest of Daves: Looking over the rest of the Book list, it's pretty much things either only one person has, or require fairly arcane (possibly non-repeatable) combos to make
[23:14] The Nottest of Daves: so does anyone else have specific book questions?
[23:55] Draconics: but what about Libram Magic?
[23:55] Gadigan: Mentioned with Tomes above, but we can cover it specifically at some point if desired
[23:55] Gadigan: Books, I mean
[23:56] Gadigan: It pretty much requires a Book to run
[23:56] Gadigan: But naturally synergizes to them to the point where you're basically using all abilities from both classes when casting it
[23:56] Gadigan: Unified Knowledge possible there
[23:56] Gadigan: You have specific questions about it?
How Exactly Do Theme Groupings Affect Casting Power, All Other Things Being Equal? wrote: [23:16] Gadigan: If you want to ask general questions about the theme groupings, I'm up for fielding a couple, but probably don't want to stray too far afield from the weapon effort
[23:16] Gadigan: I'll note that they apply in more force to NPCs and minor, non-cosmipolitan world settings than to PCs
[23:17] Gadigan: BA members are good at synergizing disparate skill sets(edited)
[23:17] The Nottest of Daves: Disparate?
[23:17] Gadigan: Gah, yes, saw a red line under what I typed and clicked to fix it without looking at the fix
[23:17] Gadigan: Thank you
[23:18] Gadigan: But there are inherent synergies between things in the same theme group
[23:18] Gadigan: Since they're more-typically found together and used by the same sorts of entities
[23:18] Gadigan: Some are more solidly in one group, others are floating at the periphery near another group
[23:20] The Nottest of Daves: I suppose I'm wondering how much those synergies boost a BA member vs a more typical NPC
[23:21] The Nottest of Daves: Say there's a BA member with Druid and Apprentice Priest vs Druid and Priest, vs Druid and Adept Priest, using their Druid-powers in a contest against an NPC Druid
[23:22] The Nottest of Daves: is one of those BA members going to be notably better than the others at Druiding in comparison to the other BA members, or in comparison to NPC Druid?
[23:25] Gadigan: That'd depend on what else they had.
The Priest offers benefit to the Druid. The benefit offered is moderate in that case (as opposed to major direct synergies / highly-themed items / etc or on the flip side a minor boost).
Apprentice Priest doesn't offer a ton. Basic and Apprentice don't really get deep enough into a class to synergize well. Classname is pretty much the requirement there. Adept helps more, Expert even more than Adept - Expert is the level at which abstandard synergies start hitting more, but this is more standard than abstandard.
[23:25] Gadigan: Continuing off of that
[23:25] Gadigan: It depends on what else they have.
Personal thematics? Personal RP power tilt? Gear equipped? Other abilities?
[23:25] Gadigan: Level also matters
[23:26] Gadigan: Particularly compared to the NPC, since the NPC's overall skill rank in the class is more likely to be tied to their Level than a PC's would be
[23:26] The Nottest of Daves: Assuming Naked and all the same level
[23:26] The Nottest of Daves: 39, if we need one
[23:29] Gadigan: Druid and Apprentice Priest is worse than Druid and Priest, who is worse than Druid and Adept Priest. The gap between the latter two is a bit bigger than between the first two, but the one with the higher Priest, assuming everything else the same, would be better at Druid'ing.
At 39, the first one would be worse than the NPC, the second would be a bit worse, and the third a bit better, assuming some bog-standard NPC using current commonality distribution of Druid skill tiers.
It's easily offset by gear or other powers or personal theme, though.
[23:30] The Nottest of Daves: Thanks!
Fists, with a Digression on the *Dryse Claw (Configuration Two) wrote: [23:35] Gadigan: Fists
[23:35] Gadigan: Combatant as class
[23:36] Gadigan: Good at close combat melee
[23:36] Gadigan: Fights with both agility and strength - moreso strength for attack, agility boosting passively hitting/dodging
[23:36] Gadigan: Mobile combat
[23:36] Gadigan: Synergizes well with Martial Arts
[23:36] Gadigan: Synergizes well with Monk
[23:37] Gadigan: Good at chain-combo melee fighting, like a fighting game
[23:37] Gadigan: Not as much as Yoyo, but that's Yoyo's thing
[23:37] Gadigan: Good at making things count as unarmed even when not
[23:37] Gadigan: Synergizes well with Ki
[23:37] Gadigan: Good at bringing personal subtype-based hits into the fray
[23:37] Gadigan: Like a ghoul or lich with an undead touch
[23:37] Gadigan: Or a beast-person with sharp claws
[23:38] Gadigan: Or something like that
[23:38] Gadigan: Light focus in multi-hit for melee
[23:38] Gadigan: Dryse Claw specifically is connected to Cetmyl Dryse, though. It's a whole lot more element-mad-science-superweapon-y than standard things in the category
[23:40] The Nottest of Daves: I was looking through some random pictures I had saved, and this prompted an 'I wonder if the Dryse Claw looks something like this?'
<image redacted>
[23:41] The Nottest of Daves: (Inspiration for this piece is the Technic League)
[23:41] Gadigan: Yes, that's actually a really good visual reference for it - talons can go weirder with different elemental energies (and longer if desired), and it can switch between sleeker and more-robotic, but yes, that's pretty much exactly the visual avenue it lies down
[23:42] The Nottest of Daves: Oooh, fancy elemental talons
[23:43] The Nottest of Daves: I am getting more excited
[23:44] The Nottest of Daves: Does it have notable differences in synergies? I assume nonbase elements in general are much more influential than with standard Fist weapons
[23:45] The Nottest of Daves: er
[23:45] The Nottest of Daves: also
[23:45] The Nottest of Daves: is that the standard timeline Dryse Claw
[23:45] The Nottest of Daves: (because I have *Dryse Claw (Configuration Two)- (Weapon, Fist Weapon, Formus & Progress, 300,000,000 Gold) +300,000 Melee Attack, +300,000 to all stats, Wielder gains +25,000 to all stats as an uncapped bonus for each Theoretical Element, Imaginary Element, or Tier-0 Element that wielder possesses (to a max of 2,000 such elements), Wielder gains Electricity Immunity against sources of equal or lower Level that are below Level 99 if wielder possesses no other elemental Immunities and is a devout worshipper of both 'Benhannis Techylmann' and 'Cetmyl Dryse', Wielder must be Level 40 or greater and must possess the ability 'Elemental Researcher' or 'Infinity Designer')
[23:47] Gadigan: It has far more synergy potential than regular fist weapons. It's an Elemental Researcher Mad Scientist weapon.
That's from a different timeline where instead of kidnapping Techyllman (and allying with Iepterro), Dryse worked with him for some purpose.
That one has tons of Electricity synergy.
[23:48] The Nottest of Daves: Aha
[23:48] The Nottest of Daves: So Electricity+Elemental Researcher fun
[23:48] Gadigan: Yes
[23:49] The Nottest of Daves: I assume the Mad Science means it also plays relatively well with Scientist-grouping classes
[23:49] Gadigan: Yes
[23:50] The Nottest of Daves: What about Technomancy? Close Enough, or Too Wizardy?
[23:52] Gadigan: Close enough. Works with Dryse stuff - she specifically is good at merging skill sets with esoteric concept stuff and technology, but also uses magic
[23:52] The Nottest of Daves: Oh man
[23:52] The Nottest of Daves: I'm beginning to feel like I managed to get the perfect weapon for Dulcinea XD
[23:54] Gadigan: Yeah, it actually works really well with her overall character-intent
Souls, with a Digression on Drain Mechanics wrote: [23:54] Gadigan: Souls
[23:54] Gadigan: Enslaver class
[23:54] Gadigan: May circle back to these
[23:54] Gadigan: Tomorrow when more people are around
[23:54] Gadigan: Combatant and Book too possibly
[23:54] Gadigan: Though Book was pretty well covered
[23:55] Gadigan: Subweapon of Force in the CYOA thing
[23:55] Gadigan: Force is a Mentalist weapon, Soul is a Mentalist-Priest weapon
[23:55] Gadigan: But Priest in the lower planar sense
[23:56] Gadigan: On Souls - good at evoking a specific other creature's powers
[23:56] Gadigan: Good at handling drain
[23:57] Gadigan: One of the weapon types that by default has the most 'evil' tilt out of base things
[23:57] Gadigan: (With Enslavers being able to rip out spirit essence from things to add to their weapons, prevent resurrection, gain powers from the killed, power up Dark/Demon magic, etc)
[23:57] Gadigan: But there's a small sliver inside the class where you could use the souls of ancient heroes to fight or something that could go non-evil
[23:58] Gadigan: Spirit focused
[23:58] Gadigan: Whereas Forces are for all stats
[23:58] Gadigan: Magic focused
[23:58] Gadigan: Wheras Forces are all three attack types
[23:58] Gadigan: Soul synergizes very well with Demon Magic, Dark Magic
[23:58] Gadigan: Some with Necromancy
[23:58] Gadigan: Very well with Demons, Devils, Daemons
[23:58] Gadigan: Some with Rune Magic
[23:58] Gadigan: Extremely well with Pactmaker, lets you shuffle some penalties off from using that
[23:58] Gadigan: Good at Hexed
[23:59] Gadigan: Other negative status effects and debuffs too to a degree
[23:59] Gadigan: But Hexed the most out of the pile
[23:59] Gadigan: Stat Drain probably second
[23:59] Gadigan: Souls are hungry, in that they drain things
[23:59] Gadigan: But also distant from the wielder
[23:59] Gadigan: There's a clear distinction between the enslaver and the enslaved souls
[23:59] Gadigan: Which means less backlash from drain attacks than with some other weapons
[00:00] Gadigan: Assuming you hold it in the weapon and don't fully drain to the wielder
[00:00] Gadigan: They're almost like livers in a sense - they can handle 'processing' contaminants to an extent, but if they go kaput, everything starts flowing through to you while they're down in terms of providing attacks and benefits
[00:00] Gadigan: Slightly weird comparison, but it came to mind as was applicable
[00:00] Gadigan: Good at replicating enemy actions
[00:00] Gadigan: Synergizes with summoner
[00:01] Gadigan: Can be used as a base for summons
[00:01] Gadigan: Also synergy with channeler
[00:01] Gadigan: Can count attacks as coming from a whatever-the-soul-is-from - so you can count as attacking as a Dragon without being a Dragon yourself
[00:01] Gadigan: Synergy with lower-planar pet classes the most
[00:02] Gadigan: But almost all pet classes to a degree
[00:02] Gadigan: Constructs the least
[00:02] Gadigan: Out of the standard stuff, at least
[00:02] Gadigan: Handle casting types of things that work with the soul types - using them as origin points for the effect for a bit of indirect casting
[00:02] Gadigan: That really depends on what you're wielding (or having specific abilities), though
[00:02] Gadigan: Questions?
[00:03] The Nottest of Daves: My attention got caught by the existence of Drain Backlash
[00:04] The Nottest of Daves: does that trigger on any particular kind of drain, or just in general?
[00:04] The Nottest of Daves: Also, is that a function of drain in and of itself, or more of drain-reacting abilities on the enemy?
[00:08] Gadigan: Drain backlash is dependent on the target of the drain - it isn't an inherent feature of drain itself
[00:08] Gadigan: If you're draining something with essence hostile to you
[00:08] Gadigan: It can hurt you
[00:08] Gadigan: Some things are specifically anti-drain
[00:09] Gadigan: Like porcupines of the soul
[00:09] Gadigan: Others have poison blood
[00:09] Gadigan: So blood drinking fangs would have backlash
[00:09] Gadigan: Or a demon draining a celestial without proper focus to process it
[00:09] Gadigan: The holy light essence would burn it from the inside
[00:09] Gadigan: Something made of living curses would likely curse whatever swallowed its power
[00:09] Gadigan: But having a soul as a weapon could store the curses in the soul, rather than pulling them to the wielder
[00:10] Gadigan: Normal people draining normal things that aren't opposed to them in theme isn't particularly dangerous
[00:10] The Nottest of Daves: Are there subtypes that don't have any opposing types for drain purposes?
[00:11] The Nottest of Daves: (other than specific Anti-drain and things like that)
[00:15] Gadigan: Most planar things have problems with their opposite alignment counterparts unless specced in hunting those down.
Most living things have problems draining from Undead.
Most Undead have problems draining from particularly 'shiny' stuff like Solar Beings or Celestials.
Most other Constructs don't drain.
[00:15] Gadigan: Considering
[00:16] Gadigan: Mindshadow, Ooze don't really have specifically-opposing groups.
Mindshadows would have trouble draining from mindless things, but wouldn't get backlashed - they'd just get stopped from doing it.
Most oozes have problems with highly-salt-based things of similar Level or specific chemicals, but not subtypes.
[00:16] Gadigan: Time Devourers can drain basically anything. It's one of their things, and they're T3. Elder Geists too.
Abhorrent Demons and Serpent Blessed to a lesser extent.
[00:16] Gadigan: Looking more
[00:17] Gadigan: Drain-focused Outsiders don't as a group have something opposed, thought individual ones might. Eidolons are in the same pile.
[00:17] Gadigan: I think that covers things pretty well
[00:18] Gadigan: Vastness and World Eater are hard to anti-drain too
