Setting Q&A

[The Nottest of Daves]

On the Usage of Unusual and Non-Real-World Weapons, and Default Attacks

I'm actually gonna flesh this out a bit, if I can, with examples and babbling. I'm getting tired, so pre-emptive apologies if it breaks down into utter incoherency at some point.

I like Geddoe's question regarding Staves. It's an interesting question. The template abilities consist of both +Melee Attack and +Magical. Then there's a whole bunch in the shop that involve turning your staff into various things. It's kind of hard to figure out what to go on, there. Should he be wailing on people? "I smack the demon in the face and my staff emits a blast of holy light!"
How does combat play out with a staff?

Now let's try something a little different.
I think 'Stone' is a little-understood and little-considered weapon category; the *general* attack is you hold the stone aloft and focus power into it, it causes something to be created or materialize on or around the target. A blazing stone, for example, could cause fire to rain down.

Alright, extreme and fairly silly example:
Dragonbreath Wonderball- (Weapon, Stone, Earth & Air & Fire & Water & Light & Darkness & Magic & Technology & Electrical & Acid & Ice & Energy & Physical & Psychic, 25,000,000 Gold) +25,000 Ranged Attack, 60% inflicts any three moderate negative status effects, Wielder counts as a Dragon while conducting attacks

That might, say... what? Create a dragon head (or heads) in mid-air that attack with breath weapons?
How do spells work with that? Or with the example I quoted?
Let's try those two different stone examples with some spells.
Water Orb- (Spell, Wizard Spell, Water, 1 MP, 500 Gold) +5 Magic Attack
and
Ancient Wind- (Spell, Other: Ancient Magic, Air, 24,000 MP, 12,500,000 Gold) +12,500 Magical Attack, All buffs and debuffs with target as a source are removed if target is below Level 40, All buffs present on target with sources below Level 40 are removed if target is below Level 40, All of target's summons are unsummoned if target is below Level 40 and if said summons are below Level 40 (as well as those summons' summons and all future generations of summons, provided that all are below Level 40)

How much/what do those change the effects of the weapon when they're cast? Or vice versa? We take one of Geddoe's signature spells and plug it into various weapon types for different types of effect.
Let's say...
Lesser Divine Sunburst- (Spell, Divine Magic, Light & Fire, 800,000 MP, 200,000,000 Gold) +400,000 Magical Attack, deals 1/2 Damage, 100% may inflict Burning, 100% may inflict Awestruck, 1 hit against 2,000,000, Caster must be Level 40 or greater
It's a low ball, that seems like a straight blasting spell.

And on the other end of the spectrum:
Skull-Moon's Laughter- (Spell, Necromancy, Darkness, 600,000 MP, 125,000,000 Gold) +125,000 Magical Attack, 100% inflicts Confusion: Overcome with Laughter, 5% inflicts Instant Death, target obtains a debuff that provides -3,500 to all stats as a non-stacking effect, May gain '1 hit against 5' and deal 1/10 Damage, Caster must be Level 40 or greater and must possess the ability 'Adept Necromancer' or the ability 'Astronomer of the Dead-Realms'
- what does that even DO? How would those work with a Stone? With a Wand? A Soul?

And for things like Geddoe's Meteor spells, or the Skull-Moon (if it works like I think and creates an effect/construct), or for:
One Hundred Thousand Rays- (Spell, Hypertech, Technology, 1,416,000 MP, 12,515,000 Gold) +14,575 Magical Attack, +14,550 Ranged Attack, deals 1/20 damage, 100 hits divided among 100, this spell repeats itself as a Cast a Spell action that costs no MP and does not have this repetition effect attached at the beginning of its caster's first action every round for 100 rounds, does not stack

Wherein you've got a spell that's pretty clearly overriding whatever weapon you're using at the time. I'm... not really sure how to pose this question, or what I'm getting at. Spells like "Meteor" and "Hundred Thousand Rays" and things that have a clear effect and definitely do something, most likely having the effect no matter what you're wielding. Things that would be considered traditionally spellcastey in the D&D sense. What's the deal with them? How do they fit into your model of Magical Attack? Especially in light of the weapon being the primary part of the attack?

Yeah, vague, incoherent question. Sorry about that. I think I'll break off this interrogation here. Eheh, sorry if I overloaded you on this one.

(10:49:53 PM) lordgadigan: Hello
(10:49:57 PM) lordgadigan: I see that more questions have emerged
(10:49:58 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Sup!
(10:49:59 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) wow... perfect timing.
(10:50:03 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) evenin'
(10:50:07 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) was going to see about theory chat
(10:50:08 PM) lordgadigan: Let me try to get some info together to try to help out with this
(10:51:13 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) It is more of us trying to better fully grasp this information
(10:51:20 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) so we don't get any incorrect ideas
(10:51:25 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) I'm not involved in this last part
(10:51:34 PM) lordgadigan: Hm
(10:51:35 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) or get upset about things that are misunderstandings
(10:51:46 PM) lordgadigan: Would people rather if I typed up another big post or if I said a bunch of things in succession in chat
(10:51:50 PM) lordgadigan: And talked more than infoposted?
(10:51:53 PM) lordgadigan: I can do either
(10:52:11 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) I think talking more than an info post would be helpful but Celas isn't here
(10:52:16 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) info talk is my vote
(10:52:18 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) and he is much more a wordsmith than I am
(10:52:24 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) I don't really have a preference, but I think if you handle it in chat you might end up bogged down by people responding to each individual point
(10:52:28 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) oh he is here!
(10:52:40 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) well, maybe we can have a question order?
(10:52:42 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Which might not be a bad thing
(10:52:45 PM) lordgadigan: I'll start in chat, then, and may switch if things get boggy
(10:52:50 PM) lordgadigan: So, let's start with a base point
(10:52:58 PM) lordgadigan: Not all weapons of the same subtype attack in the same way.
(10:53:02 PM) lordgadigan: This is an important point
(10:53:16 PM) lordgadigan: What your individual weapon does isn't necessarily what another weapon of the same type does
(10:53:26 PM) lordgadigan: So how do certain weapons tend to work?
(10:53:32 PM) lordgadigan: I'll go down some of the requested ones
(10:53:32 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (scamper922) yo
(10:53:50 PM) lordgadigan: 'Green Lantern' is a good description of what forces are like in general
(10:54:01 PM) lordgadigan: They can also meld with you and upgrade your inherent stuff
(10:54:04 PM) lordgadigan: Generally
(10:54:13 PM) lordgadigan: Again, these are for what most weapons of a type are, not specific ones
(10:54:14 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) hah! Did you see me make that reference, or was that what you had in mind?
(10:54:31 PM) lordgadigan: I saw your reference, but it's very much along the lines of what I wanted for the class
(10:54:35 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) hahah
(10:54:39 PM) lordgadigan: So, orbs
(10:55:29 PM) lordgadigan: About 65% of them are thrown / shot, about 30% of them shoot beams, the rest do odd stuff like drip down primordial goo that condenses into humanoid forms that attack the target or repeatedly release expanding energy pulses
(10:55:44 PM) lordgadigan: Reference for orb throwing: Carrie Fernandez. I think several of you played that game
(10:56:05 PM) lordgadigan: The homing isn't around to the same degree by base, but that's around the general style of the default thrown ones
(10:56:12 PM) lordgadigan: Exception: Bowling Balls. Those get bowled
(10:56:15 PM) lordgadigan: They're bowling balls
(10:56:16 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) hahaha
(10:56:16 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) Carrie...
(10:56:21 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) she from the N64 games?
(10:56:22 PM) lordgadigan: Reference: Mystery Men
(10:56:24 PM) lordgadigan: Yes
(10:56:25 PM) lordgadigan: She is
(10:56:28 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) OOOHHHH
(10:56:31 PM) lordgadigan: Mystery Men for the bowling
(10:56:34 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) I remember mystery men
(10:56:34 PM) lordgadigan: Not Carrie
(10:56:43 PM) lordgadigan: Let's see, what else got mentioned
(10:56:47 PM) lordgadigan: Staff
(10:57:54 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) Fan, i'm also interested in, as i have a fan i might consider leveling up
(10:58:04 PM) lordgadigan: There's two general categories, 'old martial arts sage' who spins the staff around, whirlwind blocks, smacks people with it, and is essentially doing staff-kung-fu and the more treaditional 'spellcaster' who would usually hold up the staff, have a magic circle or pattern appear, and release the spell.
Note: I'm going to address that later one a bit more with Geddoe as a specific focus in a bit
(10:58:15 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (scamper922) Two-weapon queries: How about Magical Attack Fish? And also what do book-chucks fall under?
(10:58:42 PM) lordgadigan: Fans get waved to blow things into people / create gusts and blasts. You can also slap with them. I have no real reference for the first one, Shingen from Samurai Warriors for the second
(10:59:02 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Temari perhaps?
(10:59:02 PM) lordgadigan: Hah, what bizarre questions.
(10:59:02 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) the sand ninja from naruto, the female one
(10:59:12 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) i can't remember her name though
(10:59:19 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Temari
(10:59:29 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) Yeah, that's it
(10:59:39 PM) lordgadigan: Magical Attack fish would summon or surf on fish waves or have fish open their mouths for FEEEEEEEEESH BEAAAAAAAM, Bookchucks would be both Book and Nunchaku
(10:59:47 PM) lordgadigan: That said, when you're getting weird, feel free to be weird
(10:59:50 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) What about Ayayayayayayay for fans?
(11:00:07 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) ah, assault matrix
(11:00:15 PM) lordgadigan: Aya would be a pretty good reference for fan, yes.
I actually haven't seen Temari
(11:00:29 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (scamper922) those are only my momentary whims, for weapons at least my characters make sense
(11:00:32 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (scamper922) night-o
(11:01:15 PM) lordgadigan: Assault Matrix, it's a collection of floating things that you release to form a pattern and attack
Think something along the lines of a laser grid from a secret agent movie, only projected by 50 tiny flying balls that come out of a Cube movie, with the balls rapid-flying around the target and cutting them into pieces with lasers
(11:01:23 PM) lordgadigan: That's just one example, some do other things besides lasers
(11:01:25 PM) lordgadigan: Have a good night
(11:02:14 PM) lordgadigan: I'll also note that unique items
(11:02:21 PM) lordgadigan: Frequently have their own weird attack methods
(11:02:24 PM) lordgadigan: Though not always
(11:02:25 PM) lordgadigan: Before I proceed to more Geddoe-specific things, does anyone have particular hanging questions about how certain things attack?
(11:02:30 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) that's what i wanted to ask. Think we can ask a few unqiue items?
(11:02:30 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Souls
(11:02:41 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) what about oddly specific things
(11:02:42 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) since i have a collection of them.
(11:02:47 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) take for example. the dreamlighter
(11:02:56 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) it is implied it is more potent or something
(11:02:58 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) or items
(11:03:00 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) *The Star Lance from Elgath'Thronginn, is my first thing
(11:03:04 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) that adjust the primary attributes
(11:03:22 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Kit asked about them earlier. I spun up a couple of theories as to how Souls function, but I'd like to get the official word.
(11:04:21 PM) lordgadigan: Souls typically manifest a glowy/foggy ball of soulstuff that flies to the target, briefly manifesting a phantom-version of the thing in question to attack
They can also be direct-chained into effects where they get bound to the effect and you have something like a warlock curse with a screaming spirit chained to it that's not doing much other than having energy leeched into the main attack.

(11:05:07 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) and if we're asking about unqiues, shoudl we post the entire text? don't want to go wall of text here
(11:05:09 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Aha.
(11:05:21 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) So the answer ended up being "both my theories". hahah.
(11:06:54 PM) lordgadigan: Dreamlighter.
It's about the size of a Zippo lighter-gun. Take the Noisy Cricket and Master Spark as baselines. Eliminate all kickback / recoil. It's a tiny gun that fires a massive blast of light. As it gets fired, images of the firer's hopes, dreams, and inner spirit start to vaguely semi-replace the nearby world. It has a constant-beam setting where it can be swept around or left pointed at something full-blast for a bit. Dpm
(11:06:59 PM) lordgadigan: *typing more
(11:07:55 PM) lordgadigan: Don't keep on-mode on too long. It can also fire small pinpoint beams if needed and can hit incorporeal stuff.
I'll note that I'm using a few more non-BA comparisons than I normally would since I'm trying to give people a frame of reference (since I think that's what people are asking for to a point)
(11:08:47 PM) lordgadigan: Star Lance. You fly around and stab things with it. It can surround your body with a white nova-like field and can turn solid or starry. It isn't massively different from normal lances
(11:08:56 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) so no energy beams?
(11:09:08 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) since it has magical attack too. just curious
(11:09:39 PM) lordgadigan: It's something that can fire energy beams if you're the energy-beam-firing type. It also just passive boosts your magic's power
(11:09:51 PM) lordgadigan: Hm, before we get to Geddoe
(11:09:53 PM) lordgadigan: An aside
(11:10:09 PM) lordgadigan: Since I think it's the sort of thing you guys are looking for but has never actually been said
(11:10:12 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) ah, i see. Thanks. that helps alot. one last one, if i may.
(11:10:19 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Kiiiit...
(11:10:22 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Bigger fish.
(11:10:24 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) okay, never mind
(11:10:30 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) thank you.
(11:10:33 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) what
(11:10:42 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) Celas has Summon Bigger Fish?
(11:10:51 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) he's a cheddar monk
(11:11:30 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) "Bigger fish to fry", I very condensed way of saying "We're trying to find out how an entire third of combat in the BA works, please don't ask for a description of all your uniques. You can PM him later for that."
(11:11:49 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) Ah okay, that was my second guess
(11:12:06 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) I tend to get laconic when I'm sleepy. eheh.
(11:15:41 PM) lordgadigan: Gear, to an extent, has a hidden 'Level', as well as a general power-frame related to its Level
Items from monsters are typically around the level of those monsters. Things that drop from uniques are higher value, higher power for the level, but the same effective 'level' as the unique generally.
Some items have inherent power ranges and frames that they're set for.
X-value items tend to scale to whatever their wielder's Level is and act as rather good items for that Level (with uniques being better than non).
Some unique items (Aeon Diadem, Sunhand, Dreamlighter) have a 'story' behind them that sets up up very well for scaling. If you do absorbs with them and raise their value, they also rise in 'level' even if non-levelled (like the Dreamlighter). Conversely, some items are designed with more specific 'this is this power baseline' and scale in raw power but not so much in 'gear level' (Avandos Robes, Lifeblade, Nexus PD Guns); if you absorb them up to 200-mil value somehow (and they're harder to do that to usually) they're actively worse than things that are supposed to be powerful RP-wise.
That said, you can help give an item more of a 'legend' by making it do awesome things in RP threads. It's rather hard to do that, though.
(11:17:02 PM) lordgadigan: To determine how good a piece of gear is, I suggest the following:
* 1. Consider its value
* 2. Consider what it came from
* 3. Consider its theme and the story behind it
* 4. Try using it. Does it work or does it suck more than you expect?
(11:17:36 PM) lordgadigan: I'll note that there's a general for-the-level multiplier to an item's value and for-the-level power based on the multiplier of the thing it came from
(11:18:12 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Huh.
(11:18:16 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) That explains a few things.
(11:18:37 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Don't take this the wrong way, but Wriggle and I had pretty much figured that absorbs effect was just plain arbitrary.
(11:18:52 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) It was why we kinda wrote the mechanic off in a lot of ways.
(11:19:52 PM) lordgadigan: Standard monsters have x1, Dragons and Planetaries would have x2, Most unique opponents x5 to x20, but they can be twice that based on subtype, Doctor Catastrophe was sitting at around x960 if I remember correctly, but that's beacause he's absurd (and the power-boost doesn't scale linearly after you get past a point)
(11:20:05 PM) lordgadigan: But again, that's for-the-level
(11:20:19 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) I hadn't considered the possibility of... hrm, phrasing breaking down. Let's say: Historical weight to an item.
(11:20:46 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) i still am unsure
(11:20:46 PM) lordgadigan: Historical weight is decently important to BA RP, both to items and to people
(11:20:51 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) considering the 4 points
(11:20:57 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) the 4th is hard to tell
(11:21:02 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) but to take Geddoe for example
(11:21:06 PM) lordgadigan: It really is, that's why it's last on the list
(11:21:08 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) Ven-Prauvsdale combo initial not found

5 Ven-Prauvsdale II = Ven-Prauvsdale III (Doctor)


Ven-Prauvsdale III + Darkness Crystal = Aun-Prauvsdale III (Black Star Vaccine)


Staff of the Orindeklic Healing Order of Phalerin + Ortansharic Holy Symbol of Phalerin + 240 Cleric's Seal + Spellcaster's Ring + Glass of Fates + Mana Channeling Crystal + Dust Nomad's Pendulum = Improved Ortansharic Staff of the Orindeklic Healing Order of Phalerin (Cleric of Phalerin)


5 Holy Staff of Phalerin + 5 Stave of the Gate Trees + Aun-Prauvsdale III + Ortansharic Holy Symbol of Phalerin = Staff of the Orindeklic Healing Order of Phalerin (Cleric of Phalerin)


Golden Sunstaff + Kind Stick + Master Healer's Shining Staff + Staff of Distant Glory + Improved Ortansharic Staff of the Orindeklic Healing Order of Phalerin + Stone of Divine Light + Radiance Dragon's Gem + Sunmetal + Holy Text of Countless Faiths + Golden Comb of Luck + White Rock of Fortune + Piety + Purity + Blessedness + Awe + Doomsday-Pattern Pendant = High Priest of Phalerin's Staff of the Order of the Wandering Sun (Priest)


High Priest of Phalerin's Staff of the Order of the Wandering Sun + Great Soulcrystal Staff Which Bears the Soul of the World's Hero + Soul Jar + Sunrise from the Ashes = High Soulkeeper of Phalerin's Staff of the Order of the Wandering Sun (Cleric of Phalerin)


High Soulkeeper of Phalerin's Staff of the Order of the Wandering Sun + 'Under the Guidance of the Stars': Esoteric Holy Text of Phalerin + 12 Celestial Diamond + 12 Day Dragon's Gem + Blade of Divine Light + Miracle + Glorious Divine Radiance Focus = Miracleworker of Phalerin's Staff (Adept Divine Magic Attunement)

(11:21:31 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) i cant even send the text on the resultant staff
(11:21:36 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) but it would seem
(11:21:43 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) that as it is only 200,000,000 in value
(11:21:49 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) this is a subpar item like the life blade?
(11:21:57 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) lifeblade example
(11:22:16 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) "if you absorb them up to 200-mil value somehow (and they're harder to do that to usually) they're actively worse than things that are supposed to be powerful RP-wise."
(11:22:34 PM) lordgadigan: It's not unique, the 'subpar' scaling is really only for unique things. You aren't doing absorbs, you're doing combos
(11:22:40 PM) lordgadigan: Combos are a bit different
(11:23:07 PM) lordgadigan: Let's take the highest-level material in your combo chain that actually had a major effect on the result, though
(11:23:17 PM) lordgadigan: It's the Soulcrystal Staff, I'm betting
(11:23:20 PM) lordgadigan: One moment
(11:24:31 PM) lordgadigan: That's off the Psychopomp, which is Level 79 and has a x1 multiplier. You've got Sunmetal in there and the Prauvsdale line in there, though, which are rare
(11:24:40 PM) lordgadigan: The rare materials would probably bump it to x2
(11:24:44 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) the glorious divine radiance focus has the lv 40 requirement and the highest gold value
(11:24:47 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) ah kk
(11:24:48 PM) lordgadigan: So you're operating with an above-average Level 79 weapon
(11:24:54 PM) lordgadigan: Roughly
(11:25:05 PM) lordgadigan: Yeah, but that focus got combo'd up from other stuff
(11:25:10 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) yeah
(11:25:12 PM) lordgadigan: I'm trying to find a base ingredient to use as a reference
(11:25:17 PM) lordgadigan: And I think it's that soul
(11:25:31 PM) lordgadigan: Sometimes a combo gets wildly beyond any ingredient and gets its own 'level' set
(11:25:39 PM) lordgadigan: These aren't hardcoded like monster levels
(11:25:48 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) that makes sense
(11:25:48 PM) lordgadigan: They're less important and more fuzzy
(11:25:52 PM) lordgadigan: But still have an effect
(11:26:12 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Now that's interesting.
(11:26:43 PM) lordgadigan: So while your staff had a lot more effort in it and non-RP-stat-wise is more useful probably, a Planetary of War's Sword is a x2 Level 91 weapon
(11:27:04 PM) lordgadigan: Which is part of why Wriggle's multi-wielding the god-weapons is so effective
(11:27:16 PM) lordgadigan: They're decent weapons at a higher level than most PC loot
(11:27:21 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) so it would be more effective both time wise and power wise
(11:27:27 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) to simply combo up my planetary swords
(11:27:29 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) into staffs
(11:27:32 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) and combo with those
(11:27:37 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) than to use what i have?
(11:27:46 PM) lordgadigan: I'd argue to take the middle path
(11:28:01 PM) lordgadigan: Combo effectiveness / whether or not something dominates a combo
(11:28:03 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) I would combo them with what i have after making them more thematic
(11:28:06 PM) lordgadigan: Tends to revolve around Gold value
(11:28:14 PM) lordgadigan: You're close to their Gold value with your staff
(11:28:20 PM) lordgadigan: So combo your staff with those in a good combo
(11:28:31 PM) lordgadigan: That would likely make a x3 level 90-something weapon for you
(11:28:48 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) now, just havign that x3 lv 90 weapon would make rp that much more successful?
(11:28:51 PM) lordgadigan: The x2 -> x3 would come from the long combo-tree and the rare materials
(11:28:53 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) or to the staff point
(11:28:58 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (caelzeph) Mrhhg.
(11:29:00 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) how does the staff and the spell work together?
(11:29:06 PM) lordgadigan: I have more to say about your staff style
(11:29:09 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) ah okay
(11:29:20 PM) lordgadigan: Does anyone have more on the current conversation topic before we move more into that, though?
(11:29:34 PM) lordgadigan: Cael? You sound like you're having some sort of question or issue
(11:29:39 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Processing. Revising mental models.
(11:30:06 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) btw- i really do appreciate this information
(11:30:15 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (caelzeph) Grgh (the Cael is waking up. Please continue)
(11:30:15 PM) lordgadigan: Excellent! I'm glad I'm able to help with it
(11:30:17 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) catchign up on the great info
(11:30:19 PM) lordgadigan: Hah, k
(11:30:19 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) i waited way too long to ask these things
(11:30:33 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) had power outage. but about combos, going to ask 1 (one) question.
(11:30:45 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) actually, i can wait
(11:30:48 PM) lordgadigan: So, next point
(11:30:55 PM) lordgadigan: Actually
(11:30:59 PM) lordgadigan: Getting a drink, then next point
(11:36:02 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) I suspect that tomorrow I'm going to be firing a barrage of combo system questions at you.
(11:36:06 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (caelzeph) Hrg. So much happened since I coma'd.
(11:36:28 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) heh
(11:36:45 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) i've got a few combo questions, but can wait. and well, i can getto your fights
(11:42:01 PM) lordgadigan: Back
(11:42:02 PM) lordgadigan: So
(11:42:04 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) wb
(11:42:08 PM) lordgadigan: I think I have another important topic
(11:42:42 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) For reference - though it may not matter - i need to be in bed by 11 (18 minutes)
(11:42:49 PM) lordgadigan: I think I've already talked about 'be awesome', 'show that you're awsome', and 'establish a pattern of awesome', yes?
(11:43:00 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) yup!
(11:43:05 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) aye
(11:43:07 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) yes you have. i'm trying that with kit
(11:43:11 PM) lordgadigan: Does everyone understand those general ideas well enough for me to type up something that builds on them?
(11:43:16 PM) lordgadigan: Time noted
(11:43:40 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) aye
(11:43:47 PM) lordgadigan: I'll assume yes from the earlier response and say it: Manage your awesomness's awesome.
Allow me to explain.
(11:48:17 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) question, do people know vashna's time zone?
(11:48:25 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Uh
(11:48:28 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Eastern
(11:48:29 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) est
(11:48:54 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) That doesn't tell me anything
(11:49:03 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) GMT -???
(11:49:07 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) okay. just asking so can do his repeat when 12:00 comes about
(11:49:10 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) EST isn;t a thing in the great white north?
(11:49:16 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) Not for me
(11:49:37 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) GMT-5
(11:49:47 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) So same as me then
(11:49:53 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) yup
(11:50:02 PM) lordgadigan: The more you do some sort of move, the more it drifts towards being your 'default attack'. 'Default attack' is not a particularly awesome zone for something to be in. Do you use meteors in every fight? Do you teleport and use universe-element sword attacks boosted by luck buffs in every fight? That's your baseline if you do!
When you do something different in battle, it generally gets compared to your default. Is your default 'drop a huge metor on them'? Then you've just put things in a frame of reference where meteors are the baseline. It's a stronger-than-average baseline since meteors are inherently cool, but it's still a baseline. If your other stuff isn't *obviously better* than meteors, you don't have nearly as much ability to rise above that line.
So when it comes time to pull something *particularly* awesome against an elite monster or a boss or something... you don't really have anything.
Keep your best couple moves in reserve. Have them be different enough from your standard moves that they stand out. Then, when you do pull them out, it's more dramatic. The BA runs to a fair part on the narrative awesomeness and general 'legend' behind things. If you have aces in the hole, you can pull them out to boost your combat style. Have some crazy-prepared off-the-wall master plan at the ready. Have a superweapon that you only bring out against the biggest monsters. Find some awesome niche, and learn when and how to use it.
If you have a varied enough build, you can avoid setting a 'baseline' to the same degree. Things start working on their own awesomeness more without having to be compared to 'is it better than what you usually do' as much. This lets pretty much all of your moves be more effective.
(11:51:26 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) so i was correct with the respect - because all of the spells are meteors, though they are all different, they are just meteors
(11:51:33 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) if i had rays or missiles or other things
(11:51:37 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) question then. would doing different fights help keep a different baseline? or vary it up? and i should do that for kit and my others. to vary the stuff
(11:51:38 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) it would be much better
(11:51:40 PM) lordgadigan: Yes, you're correct there
(11:51:45 PM) lordgadigan: Add in other stuff, it will help
(11:52:00 PM) lordgadigan: Doing different fights? Do you mean arena battles?
(11:52:15 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) i thought arena was completely different from rp
(11:52:17 PM) lordgadigan: They're essentially irrelevant to most stuff in this conversation. I'm talking about RP threads here
(11:52:19 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) and wasnt held against us
(11:52:20 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) yeah. that. but i ned ot review how fkit has fought lately and developed something
(11:52:25 PM) lordgadigan: Yes, what Geddoe said
(11:52:26 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) okay. just checking
(11:52:47 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) i am a bit sleepy, and on movie buzz
(11:53:27 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) im not sure where we are going from here - but I am still very interested in the staff+spell issue for understanding
(11:53:31 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) and if you are up to it
(11:53:41 PM) lordgadigan: I think I've hit several of the imporant points
(11:53:44 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) it would be nice to get that info even if i must sleep
(11:53:46 PM) lordgadigan: That said, sure, I can talk about that some
(11:53:59 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) even if just to that point it is at some point added to the questions thread
(11:53:59 PM) lordgadigan: 'Do I hit things with the staff?'
(11:54:23 PM) lordgadigan: Yes. At least once in a blue moon, slam the staff in someone's face and shoot a spell at them point blank
(11:54:41 PM) lordgadigan: Spin the staff, slam it into the ground, have the ground crack open and release a void geyser
(11:55:08 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) incorporate it
(11:55:10 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) so, vary your actions/attacks, and be descriptive?
(11:55:12 PM) lordgadigan: Spin the staff, craete a whirlwind of hands of divine light to pull the enemy into the air where the stars hit their prone body
(11:55:15 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) that answers exactly what i needed to know
(11:55:32 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) incorporate everything into the story
(11:55:36 PM) lordgadigan: Yes, vary your actions, be descriptive, if you want me to focus on incorporating the stats of something, mention it in your posts
(11:55:37 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) When you're done with that, I've got a really basic but kinda complex thing to talk/ask about- though you do seem to be covering exactly what I'm about to ask, hahah.
(11:55:40 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) so that it isn't just "i attack it"
(11:55:44 PM) lordgadigan: Correct
(11:56:21 PM) lordgadigan: I will say that even with all these changes, you'll probably need a thread or two to move away from the baseline
(11:56:34 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) that is fine and makes sense
(11:56:38 PM) lordgadigan: My suggestion, next time there's an RP event fight of around your level, go into it, solo it
(11:56:46 PM) lordgadigan: Assuming it's something you think you can handle
(11:56:59 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) i plan on, the next time my divinity infusion quest moves
(11:57:03 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) I'm not sure I get what the whole convo is about...but from what I can understand...the BA has Stunts from Exalted?
(11:57:03 PM) lordgadigan: *nods*
(11:57:07 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) to immedietaly make these changes
(11:57:22 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) as long as it isn't considered detrimental to make such a shift immediately
(11:57:32 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) (as in kicking darston out and continueing on)
(11:57:38 PM) lordgadigan: Frue -> Yes, describing your actions as awesome tends to make them better. That's a good synopsis
(11:57:53 PM) lordgadigan: That wouldn't be determental
(11:57:55 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) got that covered via glory
(11:58:05 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Uh, Kit. No, you kind of don't.
(11:58:14 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) that was a joke
(11:58:21 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Ah.
(11:58:26 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) forgot )
(11:58:37 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) as in the glory element and awesome blow there
(11:58:56 PM) lordgadigan: On a tangent to Exalted since I'm listing references and inspirations
(11:58:58 PM) lordgadigan: Glory
(11:59:00 PM) lordgadigan: Mardukth
(11:59:07 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) But yeah, my basic question was "How do I magic?" And the descriptions of the weapons and how they tend to work have been/will continue to be, really, really helpful.
(11:59:14 PM) lordgadigan: Go read the homebrewed Mardukth charmset and the Glory ability tree
(11:59:25 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) I must head to bed.. thank you for this information
(11:59:28 PM) lordgadigan: Excellent. I'm glad they've been helping!
(11:59:31 PM) lordgadigan: Have a good night!
(11:59:37 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) I look forward to adjusting baselines and becoming epic
(11:59:37 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) sleep well goodloe
(7/12/2013 12:00:02 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) To expand on that: The other attack types are things we're familiar with. Swords stab people, guns shoot people, etc etc. The BA makes them cool by adding elemental effects and spells and stuff, and it lets us make those things awesome.
(12:00:08 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) (and no that doesn't mean i expect an overnight change. I simply hope to make geddoe seem as awesome as I think he is)
(12:00:10 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (overlordgoodloe) night
(12:00:16 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) But the magical weapons lack that self-explanatory nature.
(12:00:29 AM) lordgadigan: Which ones are you interested in further description on?
(12:00:32 AM) lordgadigan: I can provide some more
(12:00:41 AM) lordgadigan: I look forward to Geddoe being epic too!
(12:00:59 AM) lordgadigan: Ah, as an aside to this conversation, if you guys had asked me about this four years ago or so
(12:01:04 AM) lordgadigan: I wouldn't have been able to articulate it
(12:01:25 AM) lordgadigan: Just as these conversations help you guys understand the BA
(12:01:34 AM) lordgadigan: They help me become better at explaining its inner workings
(12:01:36 AM) lordgadigan: So thank you
(12:01:41 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) I just had a horrific mental image
(12:01:45 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Haha
(12:01:46 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) Sailor Geddoe
(12:02:00 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) What about
(12:02:03 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Chaos Talons?
(12:02:07 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) "In the name of Phalerin, I will punish you!"
(12:02:53 AM) lordgadigan: In the aftermath of the Mana Cannon
(12:03:00 AM) lordgadigan: Chaos mana flooded much of the universe
(12:03:02 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Walruses!
(12:03:10 AM) lordgadigan: Chaos Talons are a weird, old, rare weapon subtype that sprung from that
(12:03:14 AM) lordgadigan: They're chaotic and weird
(12:03:23 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Haha, awesome
(12:03:26 AM) lordgadigan: The walruses are the only ones enduring in the main dimensions of the universe
(12:04:38 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Yeah, I don't have a specific request for one at the moment. Though mayhaps some of the samples (or ones of your choosing) as per my last question post might give a good baseline.
(12:05:37 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) The staff stuff you suggested to Geddoe was really excellent, for instance. It'd be interesting to see how you take on other classes, and it'd give us something to work with/help us choose our focuses going forward.
(12:05:53 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) I had some ideas for creative-meteors too
(12:05:56 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Heck
(12:06:01 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Why they always gotta come from the sky?
(12:06:05 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) (besides, I've got Forces for Celas and I've been cackling madly over the flexibility that offers for months, haha)
(12:06:08 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) You've got the void stuff
(12:06:11 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Reverse it
(12:06:18 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (xcom102a) burst them from teh blood?
(12:06:23 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Meteors falling UP
(12:06:26 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) is what I'm sayin'.
(12:07:55 AM) lordgadigan: Wonderball: Yes, this thing summons dragon heads that breathe elemnets at things.
To cast with it, you'd summon a dragon-head in appropriate to the spell and have it breath the spell at the target. If you're summoning dragons, you could reverse-cheshire-cat them where head features would appear first and then the bodies would fade in around them
(12:08:10 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (caelzeph) No, enemy, you are the meteor. *Skyward*
(12:08:10 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Oh, I had a mechanics question about Traits.
(12:08:12 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Haha
(12:08:22 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) (It can probably wait)
(12:12:52 AM) lordgadigan: Skull Moon + Scythe: Cut open a hole in the sky, reveal the moon. Have the scythe grow giant and reflect the moon's light.
Skull Moon + Knife + Necromancer: Summon up a zombie, cut open the chest, point with the knife, have the blood flow upwards and condense into the moon.
Instrument: Play the laughter as a song. Act a sketch out, have the moon appear in a phantom audience-box, laughing.
Force: Create the moon as a force-construct. Rise into the air on a trail of your power, have the moon, traits altered by the force you're embodying, form around you. Grab the target with a force hand, fling them up directly in front of the moon.Channel your inner power to summon an ominous moon.
Staff: Trace a giant magic diagram in the sky that the moon emerges from. Throw the staff into the sky, have it collide with an existing moon and cause the laughter effect.
Orb: Throw the orb into the air, have it turn into the moon. Throw the orb at your target and into their mind, have it turn into the moon.
(12:13:01 AM) lordgadigan: There's a set for the skull moon and some sample weapons
(12:13:52 AM) lordgadigan: Does that set help you out?
(12:14:14 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (caelzeph) Throwing orbs into people's minds is a thing?
(12:14:24 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) How'sabout Book? And yes, very much so.
(12:15:02 AM) lordgadigan: Orbs into minds isn't standard. You could pull it with Mentalist or with mind-affecting spells, though. The skull moon, in addition to being a physical thing, is a concept of 'ominousness' that could allow the attack to be inserted like that
(12:15:19 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) (Ah, that should have been another point I thought of... the Doom-Geezer.)
(12:15:54 AM) lordgadigan: Book: Chant an arcane ritual, summoning in the moon. Open the book, flip it towards the enemy, have the moon grow from the ink on the pages. Draw a diagram depicted in the book in the ground from bone dust, have the diagram turn into a gate that the moon rises from.
(12:16:15 AM) lordgadigan: The Doom-Geezer has an interesting origin that I don't think ever got voiced
(12:19:13 AM) lordgadigan: There's a lot of games or books that present some organization or person as having 'really nasty' stuff that they have stowed away that's too dangerous to be used in normal circumstances and is only used in the most dire of circumstances or 'if push comes to shove'. They rarely ever elaborate on it.
The cateloguers are an organization that records the full contents of millions of worlds. I decided to think on 'what things would an organization of that scope be able to have in reserve for such a major event'. I decided to actually have one of their horrible major-circumstances-only resources appear in play.
(12:19:42 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) (he's the Blackstaff!)
(12:19:47 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (caelzeph) Haha
(12:19:58 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (caelzeph) I was thinking more 'eldritch abomination'.
(12:20:01 AM) lordgadigan: That trope of 'horrible things at someone's disposal that never get called on in normal circumstances' is part of what Ebonarchus is running on power-wise
(12:20:11 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Well, that's why I thought of him then.
(12:20:11 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Hahah, nice!
(12:20:28 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) I was going to ask how much the Tome of Strange Aeons altered what we saw him do?
(12:20:35 AM) lordgadigan: I will note that he was specifically non-Lovecrafting before Wriggle gave him the book
(12:20:40 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) And there we go
(12:20:40 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) hahah
(12:20:50 AM) lordgadigan: I wanted to make something creepy and powerful that was entirely different from the usual 'horrible unspeakable' stuff
(12:21:05 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) You did an excellent job.
(12:21:10 AM) lordgadigan: Thank you!
(12:21:18 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Every time he did something it kind of resulted in staring in horrified fascination
(12:21:37 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (caelzeph) Haha
(12:21:43 AM) lordgadigan: Indeed the reaction I was going for. I was pleased to see his reception in the quest, haha
(12:22:06 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) It was impressive as all hell, and you were kinda rooting for him, and you kinda also wanted it to go away
(12:22:08 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) hahah
(12:22:18 AM) lordgadigan:
(12:22:30 AM) lordgadigan: So, I think we'll end the night on that note. It's closing in on 12:30 and I have work
(12:22:35 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (caelzeph) I was mainly on the side of 'thank heavens it's working for us'.
(12:22:36 AM) lordgadigan: I certainly enjoyed the chat, though
(12:22:38 AM) lordgadigan: I'll post this
(12:22:42 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) righto
(12:22:45 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) have yourself a great night
(12:22:56 AM) lordgadigan: You too!

[The Nottest of Daves]

(11:30:06 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: wriglenigtsparow has added you to the "BA Mechanics Chat" AIM group chat. Messages to this group are archived so you can always find the information you need. For more information about the new AIM group chats, please visit aim.com/faq.
(11:30:06 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) There we are
(11:30:16 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) You two see this?
(11:30:26 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) I didn't realise this was such an issue.
(11:30:44 PM) lordgadigan: I do!
(11:30:51 PM) lordgadigan: Hello!
(11:31:02 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Let me paste what we've said so far, if you don't mind cael
(11:31:06 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) Sure.
(11:31:11 PM) lordgadigan: (I'm also working on some ability brainstorming for the ability update, so I may be semi-distracted, but I'm still around to chat)
(11:31:55 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) It's not some awful issue or me being butthurt or something, it's one of the few areas I think you aren't confident running. I'm trying to give you that confidence through information, so you can reach the levels I know you're capable of with stuff.
(11:32:18 PM) lordgadigan: Ah, is there a specific issue in question here?
(11:32:47 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) It's regarding what entities are usually capable of in terms of unlisted power, and what gives them that capacity
(11:32:48 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I don't want to critisize your way of doing things by any means, but I think you should relax what people can randomly-do a bit. After you hit a certain degree of power (mostly determined by level), they get a whole mess of lesser abilitiesWell31 mins agoRelax them for some folks. Kelvar trying to randomly replace his lungs was still weirdo-strange and he wasn't of sufficient level to pull generic "I can do that because I have tangentially related powers"Caelzeph
(11:32:49 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I generally go off what people have in their modified statblocks. If immunities aren't mentioned, I don't always go trawling through the abilities, especially when I'm trying to do a bunch of threads at once- people are beginning to get alot of those.Oh, by no means did you make the wrong call there (besides the whole "traits don't work like that" bit) based of your understanding of things29 mins agoI'm just saying you should let people do some stuff that isn't in their stat blocks or ability sets because it makes sense that they'd be able to do it. Instead of flat-out saying "no" on things that are
(11:32:50 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) completely off-focus, look at how they're trying to do it and what general level it'd be to do itThen make a roll28 mins agoIf a level 59 entity tries to do a level 20 task that's completely off-spec, they're likely to succeed anyway merely on basis of the misc-powers that come with levelCaelzeph
(11:32:50 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I actually tend to. In some cases, though, I don't want giving people too much leeway. In this case, I thought Nole wasn't in Holy-One Mode due to the previously mentioned confusion and didn't want said leeway becoming 'yeah, I'll give you immunities with no questions asked'.They probably won't be especially good at it (unless they roll really high, anyway)MmmFrom what I've seen, in my opinion, I think you say No to a fair number of things
(11:32:51 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) CaelzephExamples?26 mins agoThat's not nessesarially bad and I have no right whatsoever to tell you how to run your worldExamples? You want me to go find specific instances where this happened?
(11:32:53 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) CaelzephIf it would help address issues, yes.That will make this a lot longerI can do that, or I can start updating Knot (which was my other plan for the night)
(11:32:53 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) CaelzephDon't let it keep you from more important stuff like that, then.25 mins agoThis isn't coming just out of my preference on how to run things, as a noteCaelzeph
(11:32:54 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I did Seirei as a more story-focused whatsit more heavily reliant on rolls because I'm not that good with mechanics and I'm still not that confident with running things. If I'm doing things in a way that's causing everyone problems, I want to knowThis is, as far as I'm aware, a thing about the BA in general. Level matters a whole lot, and people of higher level are usually able to just pull powers out of their ears when doing lower focused stuff23 mins agoI've argued back and forth with gad over this a bunch; I personally think he assigns higher level folks <way> too many random-ass powers
(11:32:55 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Like, any old level 80 person can, by default, travel at over mach 10 and reach the other side of a planet with an attackCaelzephQuite a lot of 'no' to my recollection comes from a mixture of poor rolls (I don't always mention when those hit, I work them into the narrative) and complete lack of ability-base (Remalius trying to scan for things without any scanning-ability or Diviner spec at all)22 mins agoMmm, I think you back it up to a point
(11:32:55 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) It's just an opinion thingPCs shouldn't be succeeding at everything they do by any means. I just don't think you quite grasp or impliment the level of generic-mastery level tends to grant.CaelzephI do, however, tend to be less lenient on the "I'm high level therefore I can do everything" thing.
(11:32:56 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) That's something about the BA in general20 mins agoIt's just a static mechanic based around level, where people auto-balance in certain fields (most apparently physical speed, the speed with which they can process things and perform things, and reach) to bring them up to par with other things of their levelYou want me to get this from gad? He could probably explain it a hell of a lot better than me, since it's his damn systemCaelzeph
(11:32:56 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Physical stuff is one thing; magical disciplines and the like are a bit different to my mind. But again, if this is causing problems for people I'll try to review it.18 mins agoI don't want you to feel like I'm trying to change the way you run things or critisizing you on how your world is going. I think you're a magnificent story teller. I also think you're really fuzzy on the mechanics and the way different entities relate to one another at higher levels, and am trying to help clarify that for youLike that Holy One thingI knew that, knew how he'd answer, because I knew how the setting is generally laid out better than anyone other than gad. I know the mechanics, and how things fit into them in RP
(11:32:57 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) 16 mins agoI guess that's part of why I tend to succeed at a lot of the stuff I do in RP; it's because I have a good idea where my limits are and can push them in exactly the directions they are most effectively utilized in within the bounds of the systemI feel like I'm pissing you off or otherwise roundabout offending you hereCaelzephNot at all.14 mins ago
(11:32:57 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) CaelzephIf anything, I'm concerned I'm doing that to you.I take great efforts to not be Militant Xer0, the dude who just whines and gets things changed because he doesn't like how they're going13 mins ago
(11:32:58 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I tend to phrase things a bit... Optimistically in RPLike I halfway assume I'm going to succeed at the things I do11 mins agoI don't get pissed off when they fail to work. I do, however, think I have a really good idea how gad processes things and where our limits are. I'm by no means hesitant to point out when things don't fit with those (like, for example, the Inverse Ninja Law creeping into things)9 mins ago
(11:32:58 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I think you aren't confident you understand the common aspects of how level, subtype, and general tier of shiny tend to fit into general day-to-day junk, and that if you understood that you'd feel a lot more relaxed running stuffCaelzephI tend to be pretty bad at envisaging how stuff works above a certain level. Once you get the ability to blow up planets, storytelling kinda goes out the window for me.8 mins agoCaelzeph
(11:32:59 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) (If anything I'm concerned I'm being too nice in quests- I've noticed peopel tend to come out of Seirei with a lot of stuff, on average)Loot can be an issueRegarding the "storytelling goes out the window", there are a definate few ways to get around that6 mins agoCaelzeph
(11:33:01 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) In any case, if you were wanting to get Knot sorted, don't let me distract from it.4 mins agoYou could declare the planet itself is either high level or has abnormal properties regarding those. On Noix (and a lot of normal-BA worlds like the one the first ascention took place on), if particularly high level individuals clash, a sort of subspace bubble thing pops up around them that gives them an appropriate terrain to blow the shit out of without ruining the surrounding countryside. You could easily pull something on Seirei with this (like, the Spirit World overlays the real world to some limited extent that wide-reaching effects often get swallowed up by or especially powerful entities like Fabrice often intervene and take the backlash out of big things acting freely)

I'm kinda derailed at this point2 mins ago
(11:33:13 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) That's what we've got. I'll let you process that, gad.
(11:33:21 PM) lordgadigan: Right. I'll read that over
(11:33:39 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Let me know if I'm off base on any of this and let me restate that cael has the right to run things however the hell he wants to since it's his world
(11:40:29 PM) lordgadigan: I'm caught up. You're not off-base on how BA-RP-mechanic stuff works; the stuff you're saying comes from a correct knowledge of how the setting generally works and how entities get some basic Level-conferred power boosts to let them deal with what are supposed to be 'average' type threats of their general Level-range in most cases.
You're also correct that some worlds have alt-mechanic-sets that serve to reign in these auto-scaled features to make certain types of stories more possible on those.
What specific questions / topics do you want me to answer / give info on?
(11:41:13 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I kind of don't like the way I'm presenting this. It strikes me, observing me do it, as telling cael how to run stuff
(11:41:26 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Still, blanket-powers entities tend to get according to level
(11:41:30 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) How do those work?
(11:41:48 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) /what determines where they come from and what reigns them in?
(11:42:01 PM) lordgadigan: There's some variability depending on exact circumstance, but here's the general deal on them:
(11:42:05 PM) lordgadigan: Ah, before I continue
(11:42:12 PM) lordgadigan: I'll note that I would like to post my explanation this time
(11:42:19 PM) lordgadigan: So that this is hanging around on the site
(11:42:22 PM) lordgadigan: That cool with you gents?
(11:42:24 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Please feel free to, assuming that's alright with cael
(11:42:26 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) Sure.
(11:42:28 PM) lordgadigan: k
(11:45:17 PM) lordgadigan: As beings go up in Level, the array of powers that something 'standard' has to be able to contend with increases. As such, Level compensates for specific skillset deficiencies so that entities aren't vastly cheesed by things that are supposed to be in the same power bracket using standard powers for that bracket. It's still quite possible for more-oddball stuff to come into the picture and cheese things; it's just what counts as 'standard' expands as Level rises. Similarly, once gaps in Level increase to large enough gulfs (generally 20+ Levels), the higher-Level stuff gets what amounts to auto-resist against powers from lower-Level things (though this doesn't stretch to the same powerset-compensation that increases in Level provide on default).
Let's take an example:
(11:46:19 PM) lordgadigan: hold, offline called waywa
(11:48:09 PM) lordgadigan: Back
(11:48:12 PM) lordgadigan: And that was *away
(11:55:36 PM) lordgadigan: The Colossus is Level 77. It is, at this point, in a power-bracket where battles hop around continents, people can teleport around and fly into space, etc.
If the Colossus lumbers around at slow speeds, it's just getting speedblitzed by pretty much everything else in its overall general bracket; it'd be able to fight back.
So it's able to move and react at speeds appropriate to that bracket. It's towards the lower-end of its bracket since it's not speed-themed, but it's still vastly faster (thanks to being at a point where it has to contend with world-looping birds) than some Level 40-something super-planes or something.
It also has to have range to compensate for enemies being able to move where it can't get well. Therefore it's got the 'hurl into sun' move, where it could fastball something into someone who lept away post-attack to perch on a moon, and it's got the ambiguous 'ancient magics' which gives it a variety of magical effects that it can toss around to augment its battle.
The Walking Continent (of even higher Level) has to do similar stuff. In order for it to not just get cheesed, it can do things like summon forth great land-bridges to carry it into space, harry opponents with hordes of spawned Earth-elementals, etc.
So things should be able to compete with what's 'general' for their Level. As things get closer to their theme, this expands a bit, so a Level 80 Wizard-guy would normally be able to intuitively grasp Level 40-something magic that was somewhere even if it didn't fall into his specific skillset because it's close to his skillset and something he, staying in-theme, should generally be able to handle for his overall 'role'. The Walking Continent, by comparison, wouldn't need to understand how the magic worked to fulfil its role in standing up against similar-level stuff, but it would need to be able to resist it.
That all make sense / generally explain what you're looking for?
(11:57:58 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) It would probably help if I had more specific examples of what I'm doing which are upsetting people, but I don't want to distract Wriggle from dealing with Knot.
(11:58:38 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I'm completely distracted by Knot at this point
(11:58:42 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) And I'm not upset
(11:59:32 PM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) As a note, I'm not good with coming up with continent-spanning-battle whatsits- that sort of thing would be far more likely to cause the fighters to get shunted into the Spirit World where things are rather more fluid and I don't have to come up with entire countries on the fly which would end up falling apart under narrative scrutiny compared to something I spent a bit more time coming up with.
(6/18/2014 12:00:26 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I think you're less lenient than either gad or myself in what you allow in terms of PCs sometimes unless either...

1. People are in the middle of a dramatic battle
or
2. They have a power specifically relating to exactly what they're trying
(12:01:25 AM) lordgadigan: One thing he might (I haven't gotten this info from him, so I'm guessing) be talking about is the inability of anyone to effectively fast-travel on Seirei. High-level PCs basically walk / fly around and can't super-speed-move in country-crossing strides, teleport instantly to destinations, or the like.
After my initial confusion at this, I determined that it was an intentional world-property of Seirei that the planet's essentially imposing on stuff as an area-based effect, stemming from one of Seirei's themes seemingly being the importance of the journey in addition to the destination and just generally having an ambiance that's meant to be experienced.
(12:02:06 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I think there's that too
(12:02:37 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I haven't really done a ton on Seirei with my folks, and I think I tend to be a bit more free in my assumptions of what my characters are capable of doing
(12:02:42 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) I tend to go off 'do they have something relating to <action>', 'if not, do they have some grounding in that general vicinity/overarching tree somewhere', 'if not, do they roll well/are they of a sufficient level'. Rolling is a pretty big factor in some cases, and Seirei has been weird with them. Seriously, I've had so many 90+/10- rolls and strings of the same.
(12:03:12 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) It's like the place occasionally shifts into High Drama Mode.
(12:03:52 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I feel like if I said something like "Lili picks up the pet and sticks it into her pocket", you'd be all "where's her spatial mage? She can't do that without."

General unstatted stuff like that.
(12:03:59 AM) lordgadigan: I'll note that I am enjoying reading Seirei threads a lot. I think Wriggle is too. I think he's just trying to make sure you understand the general setting mechanics so that you can make conscious choices about where you want to subvert them instead of just subverting them accidentally.
(12:04:12 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Yeah
(12:04:12 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) That
(12:04:32 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) This is more activity that I've directed towards the BA today than in the past month or so
(12:04:38 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Because you posted more in that one quest
(12:04:52 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) When we're talking fifteen-foot high pillars and four-foot daemons, that sort of thing goes tend to come up.
(12:04:57 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) does*
(12:05:17 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) As far as I'm aware, Lili's been pulling that shit from level 1
(12:05:31 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) "I put the puppets in my pocketed robes"
(12:05:59 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) There's some level of disconnect between gad allowing that at level 1 and you not allowing it at level 78. I'm trying to get my finger on where that is.
(12:06:17 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) If not 1, then without question at 10
(12:06:21 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) (In PoS)
(12:06:55 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Blanket unstatted stuff like that that's entirely open to interpretation
(12:06:57 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) Puppets are both generally-small and can be crafted on the fly by Lili at her level. When it comes to actual existing, unique entities that are four times larger than she is, though, stuffing it in a pocket's a bit weird.
(12:07:12 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) (Barring the right kind of clothes/skills/etc)
(12:07:40 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) She was taking around an army of man-sized marinettes stuffed into the much-lower-level precursor to her current robes

(12:08:04 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I'm not talking about what she can and can't do, though. I'm talking about the different perception of that between the three of us.
(12:08:14 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I could very well be in the wrong about assuming things here
(12:09:44 AM) lordgadigan: (I can chime in on things if people are requesting I answer something in specific here. I'd rather not try to micromanage mod-run-world-running decisions, though, unless I either see things way out of whack or people specifically request I do)
(12:10:10 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) There's a disconnect. Am I assigning my characters too many random out-of-the-hat powers?
(12:11:16 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Example: Foreknowledge. What that can do is widely open to interpretation. I've been generally taking it as "Lili gets a background check against most things she meets the moment she meets them" and "lili can look at things and determine likely outcomes and courses of action regrading them; forewarned and all that"
(12:11:21 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Is that too wide-reaching?
(12:11:28 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) I think you sometimes push things to an extent where things get weird (seriously, that Domain of Control could be very abusable depending on how you interpret it)
(12:11:41 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Sure, that too
(12:11:46 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Control
(12:11:59 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) "I try to exert dominion over this locked chest, forcing it to open"
(12:12:13 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) As I believe you were floating its use for 'I control the pet's size with it'.
(12:12:40 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I threw that out there as some potential way to do it based on interpretation; that sounds pretty loose to me
(12:12:48 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Still theoretically workable
(12:12:57 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Gad?
(12:13:39 AM) lordgadigan: From what I've seen of your people, usually no, occasionally yes; I try to block attempts where you do in things I run, but I don't think you've seen me do that too often.
The deific domains are intentionally able to be used in a wide variety of ways. Stuff of appropriate level has chances to resist 'em or (if higher enough) ignore 'em outright. Lili can forsee what a Level 20 farmer-man's great-great-great grandson will be doing on Level-20-world a hundred years from now, though, can forsee negative events, determine likely event outcomes, grab control of the economy around those farmers on that world by slapping divine control and daemonic law on it, etc.
(12:14:50 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) That's the open-ended, conceptual-power-over-the-thing approach I was going with. What about size-changing the pet; that seems like a pretty extreme use of it.
(12:15:11 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) /opening a locked chest
(12:15:12 AM) lordgadigan: Archdaemonic puppeteer robes store Ghullmengraths as little toy-airplane-sized plushy-terror-ships. An appropriate Rune Mage of high enough Level (like Lili) could resize and puppetize giants and stuff that she had control over / hit with proper negative effects
(12:15:35 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I think I tried to do it with something that wasn't a puppet
(12:15:40 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Well, not think
(12:15:40 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I did
(12:15:48 AM) lordgadigan: Size changing the pet with 'Control' is a bit out of its normal scope, but could still be imposed via divine will on low-enough-level stuff. That'd require a bigger gap than the robes, though
(12:15:58 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) The Spire of Crawling Faces
(12:16:01 AM) lordgadigan: Ghullmengraths aren't puppets. They're daemon-blimps
(12:16:08 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) That thing was pretty sim... Oh, ok.
(12:16:12 AM) lordgadigan: Spire also got puppetized
(12:16:14 AM) lordgadigan: Yes
(12:16:25 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I think that was my initial logic on that
(12:16:44 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) The puppeteer robes could do that sort of thing, and then I mega-upgraded them into archdaemon-equivilent robes
(12:16:49 AM) lordgadigan: Again, that's more the robes + high-enough Rune Mage (to make it into a toy since you own it to make it fit in the robe better), but yeah
(12:17:02 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Hrm
(12:17:16 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Cael, do you want me to start trying to explain where I'm pulling stuff from better in the future?
(12:17:46 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) That would probably help, yes.
(12:18:03 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I'm leery about second guessing what you says works and doesn't work since you're the guy running things, but I think there are some gaps in your understanding of the mechanics (especially the higher level ones)
(12:18:11 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Like the Holy One thing
(12:18:38 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) That thing was based off a misunderstanding due to how things apparently worked back in Hippos, which stopped me from using Traits in quests since.
(12:18:38 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I'm trying to be positive-critical; I like to root out errors whenever they see them, and sometimes tend to fixate on them
(12:18:59 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Or percieved errors anyway
(12:19:17 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Right. Sorry if I'm being crazy-analytical.
(12:19:58 AM) lordgadigan: On a side-tangent, I'm pleased to see you understanding the Level-based general-power-boost / utilizing it properly; I was worried until tonight that you were still bothered by the idea
(12:21:00 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I'm not sure I agree with it, but I understand it
(12:21:12 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) And see the need for it
(12:21:28 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Hypersonic-colossus still bugs me on some level
(12:22:10 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) /high-level-people-can-act-out-a-year's-worth-of-actions-in-the-time-it-takes-a-level-40-dude-to-drink-a-cup-of-tea
(12:22:13 AM) lordgadigan: I hope to be able to work around the situations where it'd be weird with area-based effects that specifically overwrite scaling in those forms
(12:22:15 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) More that
(12:22:51 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) The time-dilation thing is really what messes with me, as it seems so ripe for abuse
(12:23:15 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I guess the "It doesn't get abused" hotfix is just a thing that has to work
(12:24:07 AM) lordgadigan: Yeah, the setting needs behavioral limitations and management-from-above, otherwise some rogue high-Level entity just basically takes complete control of reality (and then ends up implementing its own set of restrictions (?))
(12:24:57 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) EVERYONE MUST NOW FIGHT IN HAIKU
(12:25:05 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Hey, there's a world for that
(12:25:13 AM) lordgadigan: Haha
(12:25:16 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) A world we kinda left alone
(12:25:23 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Because Haiku took a while to fight in
(12:25:24 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) Once this Bluewar thing's over, Cael's going to go back and save it.
(12:25:44 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) "There's this wonderful world out there, and I just have to rule it"?
(12:25:46 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) Before that queen causes a horrible nursery crime.
(12:25:51 AM) lordgadigan: lol
(12:26:07 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) To further the divergence:
(12:26:07 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow)

Dreaming the Timeless Dream- (Passive Ability, Other: Dreamshaper) If possessor is Dream element and afflicted with Fatigued: Asleep, individuals below Level 80 who are not 10 or more Levels greater than possessor do not reset possessor unless possessor chooses such if they would otherwise reset possessor to a prior state (though all other things they would reset are still reset)
Requires: Uplifted by Dream, Zonal Dream Control, Restful Sleeper, Absorb Dream, Level 40
Cost: 50,000,000 Gold, 2 Weeks
(12:26:17 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) That's pretty ripe for time-haxing abuse
(12:26:30 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I think that was intended?
(12:26:41 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I mean, not that that's going to be by any means common
(12:26:56 AM) lordgadigan: Are we talking RP or Mechanics?
(12:27:04 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Both, I'd assume
(12:27:31 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Kit fires off the Diadem, Lilian sits in her dream-bubble and is uneffected. That sort of thing.
(12:28:06 AM) lordgadigan: RP wise, that plus dream plus time mage should work well (with some stuff obviously being able to resist / etc). It should be good mechanics-wise too, but I'm floating around with edit-powers in case some truly-wonked-up combination that allows infinite-resets-always or something crawls up
(12:28:23 AM) lordgadigan: But yes, it should be a good ability to have
(12:28:45 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Just making sure you're aware of that (like I try to with all the junk)
(12:28:54 AM) lordgadigan: *nods*
(12:29:32 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I think that plus Quimby would do it
(12:29:43 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) That's like 80% Quimby though
(12:30:04 AM) lordgadigan: Yeah, Quimby's Retconjuration is hax on its own, haha
(12:30:33 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Is that a thing Mystery as an element does (retro-stuff), or just Quimby?
(12:31:07 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I'm wondering if Lili could pull some sort of wonky hax with Mystery + Foreknowledge + Fateweaving
(12:31:07 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) Probably a result of bridging Mystery and Time
(12:31:26 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Yeah, I'm wondering if it's a repeatable bridge
(12:31:29 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) Mystery on its own is pretty potent. When you add other things to it is when you really get to screw with things.
(12:31:30 AM) lordgadigan: Mystery has touches of it. Quimby did it far more than average, but the Enigma Men all have sorta self-rewriting backstories and gain-powers-based-on-powers-people-thought-I-had-and-histories-to-go-with-them
(12:31:33 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) At least, that's my view.
(12:32:09 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I guess that's a better way to ask; how does Mystery play with other elements?
(12:32:19 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) Mystery + Fury
(12:32:23 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) WHY AM I ANGRY
(12:32:34 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I'M ANGRY BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW
(12:32:37 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) *city blows up a continent away*
(12:33:07 AM) lordgadigan: Mysteriously.
More seriously, it varies on a case-by-case basis for each element, and certain powersets are better at utilizing certain combinations.
The Enigma-Man-Selectable elements tend to do a bit better with it; ditto for Illusion and the ones that the Enigma Man bosses used.
(12:33:09 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) Cyaeilia needs mystery-minions
(12:33:23 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) To avoid craziness, Mystery + Fate, Mystery + <Base Elements>, Mystery + Glory
(12:33:37 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Ah
(12:33:42 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Mystery + Null
(12:34:02 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) Mystery + Glory is when that legendary hero nobody mentioned until just now shows up and everyone's awestruck.
(12:34:38 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) Even if said hero would really have had a huge impact on the setting if they'd had mention of them made before.
(12:34:43 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) <Every anime ever>
(12:34:57 AM) lordgadigan: These answers are all subject to potential extensive change, but Mystery should work well with Fate, work about as well with Base Elements as most nonbase elements that aren't thematically opposed to them do, Badly with Glory (excluding some bizarro build that takes way more effort than most to make work), and better than most elements but still iffily with Null
(12:35:46 AM) lordgadigan: Something like what Cael mentions *could* be pulled, but extensive interaction between Mystery and Glory usually ends up with one or the other getting drowned-out since their methods of operation are usually complete opposites
(12:36:11 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) I suppose Mystery + Glory might work well in letting you act as some legendary hero and having random events/landmarks/craters assigned to you as being your work.
(12:36:35 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) I expect Mystery + Glitz would end up the same way.
(12:36:41 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) "Do you KNOW who I AM?!"
(12:36:48 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) "Because I certainly don't."
(12:36:56 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) *glamour*
(12:37:07 AM) lordgadigan: Yeah, Glitz has similar issues to Glory, though not quiiiite as pronounced
(12:37:31 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I asked due to the opposite-ish nature of them
(12:37:35 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) How about Grandeur?
(12:37:46 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) Ancient lost wonders!
(12:38:00 AM) lordgadigan: Similar boat to Glory, though Grandeur is ill-defined enough at the moment that it could expand into a more-compatible direction
(12:38:25 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) It'd probably be good for 'astounding things coming from apparently nowhere'.
(12:38:59 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) Suddenly there's a beautiful new statue in the town square and nobody knows who made it but dear god it's getting attention now.
(12:39:35 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) I was thinking of potential for those surreal palaces
(12:39:45 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) Hm?
(12:39:47 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) "This is magnificent, but I can't quite put my finger on how or why"
(12:39:56 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) "Like a dream, but something off"
(12:41:35 AM) lordgadigan: I'm going to take a shower. I intend to return later to try to do more of those abilities that I seem to have gotten sidetracked from.
(12:42:08 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) Mystery + Laundry
(12:42:15 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) "Where did this sock come from"
(12:42:55 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) Mystery + Not Bees
(12:42:58 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) "OH NO"
(12:44:21 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (caelzeph) Haha, Mystery + Knowledge would be an odd one.
(12:44:35 AM) [BA Mechanics Chat]: (wriglenigtsparow) Oop

[The Nottest of Daves]

(11:35:13 PM) lordgadigan: For those interested, it's looking like some questions about the general BA power scale may be answered here soon
(11:36:26 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) So, here's what I've got from earlier.
(11:36:37 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) (8:49:49 PM) Celas: I've got a gap in my mental modeling as to what level 59 is.
(8:50:14 PM) Caelzeph: Annoying.
(8:55:05 PM) Celas: Level 19: "Badass Normal". You're the stuff of stories and legends, something that people aspire to.
Level 39: Superhero. You're no longer something people aspire to, because you're something they can't be. I feel like most Anime heroes fall under this category.
Level 59: ??? This is the point where physical combat exits my perception. I can't recally conceive of it at this scale. What's a gunslinger at this point? Is this "Wave a hand, blow up a city"?
Level 79: Titanic. World-shaking. You have effects on continental scale. Cities rise and fall by your whim.
Level 99: Godlike (with or without Divinity). Your effects are planetary in scale. You now generate mana. Creation and destruction of (lesser) objects and effects is near effortless.
(8:55:38 PM) Celas: I don't know how to take any sort of combat style past 39, aside from "Energy blast destroys large swaths of countryside."
(11:38:06 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) I'm not sure how accurate most of that is, but I felt like it was a decent general bead on things. Barring the ??? in the middle, haha
(11:38:45 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Ooh, this should be interesting!
(11:39:06 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) And that's not getting into element and effects and countering concepts and stuff. I'm talking raw combat potential on the surface.
(11:40:34 PM) lordgadigan: Let's see
(11:44:30 PM) lordgadigan: I'd put a lot of superhero and anime stuff (and video game stuff) as going in the 40-59 bracket.
You can destroy cities in fights there, yes. You can also fight solo against large armies and such.
A gunslinger at that scale would be zip-stepping around the city, shooting up whole blocks of buildings and people, bullet-doding around enemy fire, outrunning planes sent after them and shooting missiles fired at them out of the air, pulling bullet-trajectory-bouncing stuff to angle around and hit stuff in buildings on the far side of town, and swapping in bullet-sized nukes for ammo. You've got swift movement, huge AOEs, and a ton of destructive potential, but it's still not up to the world-shaking levels yet.
(11:44:53 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Obligatory Question: What about Gurren Laagan?
(11:45:34 PM) lordgadigan: Level 200-399 range!
From the description I posted of that range "Galaxies are being blown up by the dozens and thrown like storms of shurikens here. People are moving far faster than the speed of light and moving from one side of a universe to strike at the other in seconds or less."
(11:45:56 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) It suddenly and randomly jumps from 80-ish to there
(11:46:07 PM) lordgadigan: Haha, yeah
(11:47:13 PM) lordgadigan: Does my description there help you out, Celas?
(11:47:22 PM) lordgadigan: Do you need examples of other combat styles? Do you have other questions?
(11:48:39 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Gad: I think the bullet-swapping Nukes for ammo massively trumps everything else in that description
(11:48:49 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) As far as "oh shit" for his opponents
(11:48:55 PM) lordgadigan: Haha
(11:49:10 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) I'd argue that, with that, he could be world shaking
(11:49:18 PM) lordgadigan: For destructive power per-shot, probably. You've got other attacks / ammo methods that are equally damaging, but less iconic
(11:49:24 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Over the course of a few days he could sterilize a mid-level planet
(11:49:32 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) So for spell-casters...
(11:49:35 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) hahah
(11:49:41 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Could that translate to pulling more expansive spell-gambits?
(11:49:54 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Megaspells need more love imo
(11:49:59 PM) lordgadigan: Yes, a Level 59 person could, in a lot of cases, wipe a planet of lower-Level stuff of life in a few days /weeks if it was trying
(11:50:10 PM) lordgadigan: Yes, spell-gambits also scale with level
(11:50:19 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) What do you mean by spell-gambits?
(11:50:31 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) /swapping spellcomponents, pulling general combined effect stuff?
(11:50:33 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) "Contingency Magic"
(11:50:55 PM) lordgadigan: Linking together spell effects from multiple spells into more complex magical effects that produce combined or triggered magical events
(11:51:05 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) ah
(11:51:36 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Also this
(11:51:37 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) http://buttersafe.com/comics/2014-04-22-spaghetti.jpg
(11:52:18 PM) lordgadigan: A daring Culinary Arts spell gambit there, haha
(11:52:25 PM) lordgadigan: Didn't quite pan out, though it was tasty
(11:52:29 PM) lordgadigan: I think, at least
(11:52:39 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Gotta give the guy points for trying
(11:56:31 PM) lordgadigan: Anything further on the topic here?
(11:56:34 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Hrngh. I'm trying to formulate thoughts, and my head isn't cooperating. I get, to some degree, that an opponent on equal footing as you is just straight-up unaffected (to an extent) by things like "rapid-fire nuke-bullets" (smoke clears, enemy walks out of it only minorly scuffed up) but I have trouble... I dunno, processing that.
(11:56:54 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) I kinda feel like most combat like that's taken place in bubbles, haha. There's an exception for Warlord of Thunder, I suppose
(11:57:06 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) ...er, I mangled the quest name
(11:57:14 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Warlord Of Iron!
(11:57:14 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Warlord of Iron, Smith of Thunder
(11:57:28 PM) lordgadigan: A lot of worlds are either set up on a scale where that type of combat works or have a bubble-effect so combat on that scale (and above it) doesn't wreck the worlds
(11:57:29 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) (That was my first quest)
(11:57:37 PM) lordgadigan: Warlord of Metal, Smith of Thunder saw that sort of stuff
(11:57:53 PM) lordgadigan: Forging the Metal saw people blowing up the Ibodian homeworld's capital city pretty much
(11:58:07 PM) lordgadigan: The Imperial Homeworld bubbles fights
(11:58:17 PM) lordgadigan: Noix bubbles fights
(11:58:39 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) ah, okay. I didn't really consider that that could be common.
(11:58:42 PM) lordgadigan: Knot was designed to cope with that sort of fighting and had so much space weirdness going on that it might as well have been bubbling fights
(11:58:56 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) I'll pipe in and say Noix is very bubble-y
(11:59:01 PM) lordgadigan: Yeah, it's a moderately-common effect on area mana patterns.
(11:59:29 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Two level 79 folks get ready to go at it, it'll usually spawn an entire extra continent that they mostly act in
(11:59:33 PM) lordgadigan: There's plenty of places that *don't* do it, but they're either lower-Level and would get wrecked by it, on some larger scale (interplanetary empire or the super-vast places of Erathis) that they don't need to, or the like
(11:59:56 PM) lordgadigan: The Imperial Homeworld does stuff like what Wriggle's saying for Noix
(7/1/2014 12:00:07 AM) lordgadigan: Unless the Empire itself turns that off or something
(12:00:11 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Other people will see them zipping around with light flashes or something occasionally, but the extra mostly-the-same continent works to contain the outrageous damage that comes from it
(12:00:49 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) ...Unless they're attacking the continent, which is something else. If that happens, they usually piss off the errant level 125 Anathemi dragon that happened to like that village you just blew up
(12:01:00 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Eventually
(12:01:36 AM) lordgadigan: And it is possible for stuff to be high-enough Level to avoid an area's bubbling
(12:01:45 AM) lordgadigan: But that varies per area and is usually quite high for important ones
(12:01:46 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Most folks avoid deliberate anti-continent scale stuff because they don't know who knows who, like bascaradine and a bunch of other people going "don't kill that one guy for the love of god, his bro is thandolman"
(12:02:13 AM) lordgadigan: Same issue on the Imperial Homeworld. You really don't want to wide-attack stuff without knowing who/what is there.
(12:02:56 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) > Knot was designed to cope with that sort of fighting and had so much space weirdness going on that it might as well have been bubbling fights

Burns to cinders
(12:03:10 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Well
(12:03:17 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Camelfire was designed to Break Rules
(12:03:17 AM) lordgadigan: Haha
(12:03:20 AM) lordgadigan: Yeah
(12:03:35 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Knot seemed to be "everyone who matters is cheating blatantly or Nole"
(12:03:54 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) None of the important factions were playing by the rules
(12:04:04 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) None of the successful ones
(12:04:08 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Let's see
(12:06:41 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) So, okay, I think I've got it. Huge potential area destruction as we level up, but for the most part Doesn't Matter. (Unless you're actively choosing to do that, or when it randomly Does Matter.) And, strangely, against people of relatively equal power, it's kinda-sorta like nothing really changes.
(12:06:58 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Regular combat but More So, then?
(12:07:25 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Camel had the oil.
Selereth pretty much straight-up guided Charming through everything when he started asking.
Ganfo was pulling absurd hax.
The enigma men were attempting to pull absurd hax.
The Architect's team was pulling a level of hax equivilent and opposite to the enigma men.
The RDF were blatantly abusing the Skull-Faced Lion's immunity to everything except himself
Doc Cat hopped in after everything was on fire and beelined to the goal, ignoring the entire quest (why didn't he do this before?)
The Enigmatic Serpent just ran around ignoring and being ignored by the stage
The Entombers were poking their way through walls.

(12:07:28 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Did I miss anyone?
(12:07:46 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) I think the NDE was playing the game the way it was supposed to be played. They just died.
(12:07:47 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Doesn't matter if a mountain behind the dude you punch is exploding from the force of it, he's still fully capable of taking that punch.
(12:08:10 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Ah. Zaga had the entire thing almost completely mapped out already.
(12:08:12 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Zaga had "you don't get lose and also don't have any/many encounters."
(12:08:15 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) *lost
(12:08:16 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) And had a level 99 planetary in there
(12:08:24 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) hahah
(12:08:25 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) And befriended half the area
(12:09:17 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) I keep trying to come up with ways to breach the Render's sanctuary
(12:09:30 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Mysteryyyyy
(12:09:35 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) If the Fate Hand, a literal manifest agent of Zaga (who won) got pulled into it's area...
(12:09:45 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) ...Might that give her a way into the place?
(12:09:56 AM) lordgadigan: "(why didn't he do this before?)"
Before Knot started? He couldn't. Nobody could really get in there till Zaga got stuff set up with the combo-these-crystals-with-the-walls-to-go-in thing.
Before the place got lit on fire? He didn't have scans that worked through the Knot till it was breaking down. He couldn't have done the beeline thing earlier and might have run into something like that Level 99 Planetary
(12:10:21 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) What on earth happened to it?
(12:10:24 AM) lordgadigan: Back to Celas's statement, though
(12:10:30 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) 'k
(12:10:35 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) I'll not derail this one
(12:10:37 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) More
(12:14:52 AM) lordgadigan: (12:06:41 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) So, okay, I think I've got it. Huge potential area destruction as we level up, but for the most part Doesn't Matter. (Unless you're actively choosing to do that, or when it randomly Does Matter.) And, strangely, against people of relatively equal power, it's kinda-sorta like nothing really changes.

That's... cynical-ish sounding or something? Not incorrect, though.

That said, you get the ability to do more at higher levels. There's plenty of places where area-destruction does work and matters. There's plenty of times where in the places where it 'doesn't matter', it still gives you the tools needed to fight other things of the same general level. And if you're fighting stuff of similar Level, it'll normally be able to cope with standard-for-its-Level stuff, so fight difficulty won't change much. You can do a ton more to lower-Level stuff, and you can still do notable stuff if you go out-of-scope. Looking at your overall power, it goes up. The universe at large doesn't scale with you. You can go solve tons of problems effortlessly that'd have been huge before. It's just a large portion of people *don't* because they can access new content that actually gives them level-appropriate rewards that help them grow in power further.

So it both 'doesn't matter' (in that the universe as a whole is set up to not be easily-wrecked in major locations) and 'does matter' in that what you can do has increased (a lot in most cases with bracket jumps). It's up to *you* if you want to move into the higher brackets of things where stuff is more equal with you again, it's just usually more 'fun' and rewarding to take that option.
(12:15:11 AM) lordgadigan: Hah, the derail is fine. I just don't want to ignore Celas's questions since they're the reason for the chat
(12:15:27 AM) lordgadigan: By all means, we can keep talking about how, yeah, most major groups were 'cheat-y' in Knot in some manner
(12:15:42 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) I just like general BA discussion, honestly
(12:16:01 AM) lordgadigan: And I like explaining it / answering questions about it / talking about it too, haha
(12:16:39 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) haha, sorry, I tend to distill things down to basic components, which... yeah, does tend to sound cynical
(12:16:54 AM) lordgadigan: The bubbling is a checkable thing. If you want to go somewhere that normally lacks bubbeling, you can. It's just a lot of 'major' parts of the setting do it
(12:17:11 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) > in that the universe as a whole is set up to not be easily-wrecked in major locations

I like to recall the Lloyd-mom saga when you say these sorts of things
(12:17:16 AM) lordgadigan: Hah, it's fine. I'm not offended. I just want to make sure I'm presenting things in the way I want to be presenting them here
(12:17:23 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Also Heed quasi-replacing Gadigan for a while
(12:17:50 AM) lordgadigan: Both notable events
(12:18:01 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Where things were arguably wrecked
(12:18:06 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Because of who was wrecking them
(12:18:08 AM) lordgadigan: Heed quasi-replacing Gadigan for a while being one that hasn't ever happened in the BA-continuity, mind you
(12:18:12 AM) lordgadigan: But yeah
(12:18:24 AM) lordgadigan: Sometimes 'wreck stuff' plots indeed do go through
(12:18:37 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Hevectria hoooooy
(12:18:48 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Yeah...
(12:18:50 AM) lordgadigan: Hah, that being a place that'd wreck things, yeah
(12:19:08 AM) lordgadigan: One that'd probably get one post, then go totally offscreen, and then the setting would resume way later after it was solved
(12:19:15 AM) lordgadigan: Rather than make BA members go through that in any way
(12:19:31 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) haha
(12:19:52 AM) lordgadigan: I'd seriously probably storage-toss almost all of 'em in that circumstance (excluding anyone who made the terrible, terrible choice of causing the problem)
(12:20:24 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Everything I hear about makes that place sound worse
(12:20:30 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) /higher level
(12:20:41 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) I'm kind of thinking it's somewhere in the 800s to low 1000s now
(12:21:32 AM) lordgadigan: 'In the 800s' is probably a good estimate on it.
(12:23:45 AM) lordgadigan: This is making me strongly consider doing a 'go back over People and add general level ranges to a lot of the major NPCs there'
(12:23:55 AM) lordgadigan: Given that I'm finally getting stuff in those upper brackets mentally sorted
(12:24:01 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Yeesh.
(12:24:08 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) Yeah, that's fairly terrifying, then
(12:24:43 AM) lordgadigan: I'm pretty sure I stated at one point that if Hevectria was about to open that Gillingman and Doc would drop aggression against each other and team-up to prevent it
(12:24:59 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Haha
(12:25:10 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) In-universe struggles pale in comparison
(12:25:35 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Something where general-stuff is as powerful as Gillingman that's way nastier than Corruption and spreads just as unpleasantly? Sure, no big deal.

No restrictions on it? Eveyone's screwed.
(12:27:08 AM) lordgadigan: Yeah
(12:30:09 AM) lordgadigan: Further questions from anyone here?
(12:30:16 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Hmm~
(12:30:27 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) If gadigan had a porpoise avatar, would it smile very often?
(12:30:28 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (driftwood153) not that I can think of. M'brain's gonna chew on this for a while.
(12:30:41 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) I think that I've been trying to figure out the general abilities that characters gain as they level
(12:30:46 AM) lordgadigan: Haha. Sure. The porpoise avatar is smiley.
(12:30:50 AM) lordgadigan: Alright
(12:30:50 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Since they flat get better at everything
(12:31:00 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) I'm a bit wibbly on the utility side of that
(12:31:05 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) But what would the porpoise of the porpoise be?
(12:31:06 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) rather than the raw poawah
(12:31:28 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) I'm just fishing for questions
(12:31:32 AM) lordgadigan: As things gain levels, they get powers to deal with whatever is 'standard' at their level, with what counts as 'standard' getting some more leeway within whatever their 'theme' is
(12:31:59 AM) lordgadigan: The most notable ones for combat would be speed, attack range / scope, durability, and attack power. Also vision range / speed.
(12:32:46 AM) lordgadigan: Mental computation speed / quantity of knowledge holdable / computation complexity possessable are also generally scaled. Intelligence is generally *not*.
(12:33:03 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) See: Tophat Ogre
(12:34:04 AM) lordgadigan: Overall spiritual power is in the boat
(12:34:09 AM) lordgadigan: As would 'resistance' to various effects
(12:34:34 AM) lordgadigan: For example, once you get past certain points, most things don't age / need air / get affected by normal poisons and diseases / get tired
(12:35:21 AM) lordgadigan: Once you get particularly high, like 80-ish, stuff starts getting the ability to pull cross-dimension counters even if it can't normally travel across dimensions and deal with a lot more magic / status effect stuff
(12:35:37 AM) lordgadigan: Since the repertoire of things it'd be fighting as 'standard' at those levels is so vastly increased
(12:35:39 AM) lordgadigan: Beyond that, things get a bit more in-theme-y.
(12:35:43 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) *nod*
(12:36:07 AM) lordgadigan: So a wizard's general knowledge of most magic and ability to deal with all magic types, not just the type he casts, would scale
(12:36:40 AM) lordgadigan: Whereas a rock giant wouldn't need to know about or manipulate magic to remain effective at its level, it'd just need to be able to defend against the standard magics and retaliate against someone using them on it
(12:42:05 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) "What, you can cast wish and fly? I throw rocks had enough to smash wishes to pieces."
(12:42:26 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) "Also I can jump into orbit"

(12:42:29 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) Keepin' it in theme, hehe
(12:42:49 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky@hotmail.com) /Generally physically ridiculous to keep up with magic types
(12:43:03 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) See: Darston
(12:43:53 AM) lordgadigan: Yep! Physical-types start being able to do some crazy stuff at the higher levels
(12:43:59 AM) lordgadigan: Beyond what normal 'physical' would consist of
(12:49:23 AM) lordgadigan: Checking again: Further questions before I drift to other things?
(12:49:40 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) I can keep coming up with nonsense pretty much indefinately
(12:49:43 AM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (wriglenigtsparow) Have a nice night
(12:50:04 AM) lordgadigan: Haha, thank you
(12:50:13 AM) lordgadigan: You heading to bed?
(12:50:22 AM) lordgadigan: You have a good night too

[The Nottest of Daves]

The Question Digest, Volume 3


On Gilgamesh and The World of the Battle Arena

(11/3/2014 2:15:08 AM) fruedestruction: Is there a BA equivalent to Gilgamesh?
(2:16:18 AM) lordgadigan: Which Gilgamesh? Legendary? Fate Stay Night? Final Fantasy?
(2:16:36 AM) fruedestruction: Either of the first two
(2:16:56 AM) fruedestruction: but preferably Fate Stay Night due to his massive ego and owning everything
(2:17:01 AM) fruedestruction: literally
(2:17:02 AM) lordgadigan: Odds are strongly in the 'yes' direction. No specific character comes to mind, but it seems like something that'd be there
(2:17:41 AM) fruedestruction: that reminds me, of which iteration of the BA are we in?
(2:19:18 AM) lordgadigan: I no longer remember. Seventh sounds like a correct answer to my head right now, since I think we lost five versions completely and version six is the one sitting in 'Archive Rescue Effort', but I don't recall the specifics anymore since it has been so long since we had to version-switch
(2:19:34 AM) fruedestruction: In-universe iteration
(2:19:57 AM) fruedestruction: I think those end with the Great Ascendant Brawlfest?
(2:20:07 AM) lordgadigan: Oh. First.
(2:20:16 AM) fruedestruction: Huh
(2:20:17 AM) lordgadigan: We actually haven't had one of those end yet in either the dreams or the BA
(2:20:22 AM) fruedestruction: I think it was older than that
(2:20:29 AM) lordgadigan: It's just set up to do that eventually
(2:20:38 AM) lordgadigan: There was stuff before the first Ascension
(2:21:11 AM) lordgadigan: There was the period before the Worldstone, the period where the Worldstone ran the elements, the period where the UCS KIRGA ran everything (during the First Ascension), now the Source Guardians run the elements
(2:21:17 AM) lordgadigan: There's been lots of versions of various things
(2:21:18 AM) fruedestruction: for the record, I don't count "The universe blew up, therefore backup restore" as a new iteration
(2:21:24 AM) lordgadigan: k
(2:22:28 AM) fruedestruction: Is the identity of the to-be-Ascendants set in stone?
(2:27:58 AM) lordgadigan: For the most part no. I've been going along and picking people I find I like or find interesting for roles as things move forward. I sometimes pick Ascendants in advance of particular Ascensions, but other times I don't decide on who is in an Ascension until it happens. A large part of why I've been so cagey on who else is in Naria's Ascension is that the dream-timeline hasn't reached that point yet (it's still in Fifth), and I don't want to have two different sets of Ascendants going around as the Sixth Ascension (but as stuff progresses, I've picked more and more of the Sixth Ascension set, so I've been revealing them as I go. Naria was the first to be picked. Shalmarkion second. Gilfriend and Honce were picked rather recently. Jyurae Daiemah was the Traitor in the dream-version of things, but I've swapped her out for the BA version since the Tratior doesn't matter as much, and there's no reason for her to hold the role here (since she got it in the dream timeline based on some of the stuff she's been doing against the Fifth Ascension). I haven't decided who I'm swapping in to replace her on the BA yet, though.
All of that having been said, Harkala and Kriele (who hasn't even shown up on the BA) have been called out as eventually being Ascendants in the dream version of stuff (and I plan to keep them as eventual-Ascendants on the BA version).
(2:28:33 AM) lordgadigan: Ah, I'm probably posting this conversation bit since it's setting-info-relevant and I like to get that stuff onto the site. That okay?
(2:28:58 AM) fruedestruction: can PC shenanigans mess with that?
(2:29:52 AM) fruedestruction: i.e. "You thought the next Ascendant would be Plixplix, but it was I, Dio Mr.Brindleton!"
(2:33:02 AM) lordgadigan: Hah. Indirectly probably. Directly probably not. I wouldn't let you folks derail Harkala or Kriele's eventual Ascension (or at least I think I wouldn't). I might let them get killed and just have them show up to Ascend later, mind you. Having said that, PCs doing things on the site probably has an effect on who I pick for Ascensions, as I pick people who I like, and I like people who get awesome exposure usually, and the BA is a place where the PCs can control to a degree who shows up and does things. If Hugo Bekkler ever ends of Ascending, for instance, it's almost certainly due to BA influence (the guy was a rather minor character in the dream version of things). I almost-credit BA chat, with its occasional fascination for stories involving Gilfried, as potentially being a contributor to Gilfried getting a position.
All of that having been said, I don't want to specifically restrict my behavior on Ascendant choices, even restricting it by saying 'no, the PCs can't do things about it'. After all, the whole Traitor status thing wasn't originally a thing. It was something I added when Argantannion went off-the-rails and I decided to swap someone else into her place.
(2:33:27 AM) lordgadigan: Plixplix, for the record, has specifically asked to *not* become an Ascendant in the dream version of things.
(2:33:49 AM) lordgadigan: She has issues with the behavioral restrictions it puts on people and would rather keep doing her thing.
(2:34:02 AM) fruedestruction: Jokes on her
(2:34:06 AM) fruedestruction: she's not a PC
(2:34:16 AM) fruedestruction: so she has more restrictions than us
(2:34:30 AM) lordgadigan: Hah
(2:35:25 AM) lordgadigan: I'm going to post this. I encourage you to continue this sort of questioning line in main chat (unless you specifically don't want to be talking about it over there), as I think this is generating some potentially-interesting info.


On Horrors and Agony

(1:31:07 AM) fruedestruction: What's the difference between Agony element and Horror subtype?
(1:36:26 AM) lordgadigan: Agony is pain and suffering. Its users gain power from pain and frequently become stronger as they get more hurt. It also has elements of self-improvement-through-bodily-mutiliation/replacement, inflicting-great-suffering-on-others, and ascetic enlightenment through suffering and self-deprivation. Its thematics frequently include chains, hooks, blades, and spiny barbs. It also frequently dips into a loss-of-personality/'humanity', with such being replaced with a desire to spread suffering. (It also has other things, but those are amongst the most common traits.)

Horrors are a creature subtype. They're the things that go bump in the night and make people shiver when seen. They include a wide range of monsters and abominations, but they tend to possess qualities that would horrify 'normal' people. Silent Hill creatures fall in here, as do monsters from a lot of horror games and things in the Nightmare and Horror categories from Magic. There doesn't have to be any pain connection, and the Horrors can look like they have open wounds and such but not actually be in pain or pain-powered or the like; it could just be a visual trait that causes fear to be elicited.
(1:37:23 AM) fruedestruction: Hmmm...
(1:37:29 AM) fruedestruction: so basically
(1:37:40 AM) fruedestruction: Agony is the Silent Hill PCs
(1:37:47 AM) fruedestruction: and Horror is the Silent Hill enemies
(1:40:03 AM) lordgadigan: Interesting. I'd go with the Silent Hill PCs being some mix of Psychic and Darkness. They don't usually intentionally inflict pain on things, and while their pain can fuel the circumstances around them, it's not a conscious thing, and other aspects of their past / mental turmoil also influence what the city makes them deal with. (I think, at least. I may be missing some reason that you're making the connection between them and Agony.)
But yes, Horror fits the Silent Hill enemies very well.
(1:40:27 AM) fruedestruction: They're drawn to Silent Hill by pain
(1:40:53 AM) fruedestruction: because if they didn't have pain then they wouldn't be in the "other" Silent Hill
(1:41:04 AM) lordgadigan: Aha, k
(1:42:02 AM) fruedestruction: For example the main character of Silent Hill 2 is tormented by the guilt of mercykilling his wife so much that he forgot the event
(1:46:22 AM) fruedestruction: what's the opposite of Corruption?
(1:46:26 AM) fruedestruction: everything? >_>
(1:49:37 AM) lordgadigan: Hah!
Right now both everything and nothing. It merges with and takes over all sorts of other elements (and has multiple status effects that deal Corruption and one other element damage, with the other element varying by the effect), while non-Corrupted elements that have awareness of what it is tend to try to reject it utterly. It also severely punishes things that give it up and return to other elements.
That said, Eckermann recently made a point in a thread that Wonder acts as a fairly good opposite to Corruption. Wonder enhances things and makes them better at what they do. Corruption enhances things while taking them over, subverting them, and making them part of / dependant wholly on it. Wonder also has a naturally-strong resistance to Corruption. They aren't perfect mirrors since Wonder is Tier 2 and Corruption is in the weirdo Tier 0, but right now Wonder is its most-likely-to-qualify-as-an-opposite.
(1:50:45 AM) fruedestruction: Wonder&Agony
(1:50:46 AM) fruedestruction: gogogogogogo
(1:52:57 AM) lordgadigan: That has actually happened, though I don't think any of the players are quite aware of such yet.
One of JTL's junior-brigade members, the one who turned herself into a fairy by stitching a suit of fairy clothes into her body, gaining immortality and fairy magic in the project, is actually that element combination. (She's also actually rather nice and avoids using the Agony half of her powerset offensively; she only uses it for self-buffs and stuff).


On the Bizarre Nature of Spacetime

(6:33:06 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) Random-ass thing that has been bothering me since I thought of it: is there an in-universe justification or explanation for how spacetime in the BA can sometimes be pretty bizarre?
(6:33:29 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (caelzeph) A Gad Did It
(6:33:40 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) For instance giving the middle finger to physics by being in two places at once. (via battle and quest threads)
(6:35:06 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) Was "A Gad Did It" Gad's officialest answer?
(6:35:09 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (caelzeph) If we wanted to go the most-obvious mundane-route, those participating in battle (if in quests elsewhere) are actually copies of the BA Member (much like how fighting bosses sets you up against a copy), except experience and memories and the like carry over.
(6:35:22 PM) lordgadigan: Post, typing a response
(6:38:31 PM) lordgadigan: The short explanation, which is incomplete and not always 100% correct: Differences in timeline progression speed (with said progression speeds being variable to accomodate different quest progress speeds) between multiple locations are the main answer. Beyond that, BA member ability sets from one event don't fully 100% sync into their mana patterns immediately, leaving them sometimes with slightly-old ability sets during certain events (to allow for nonslotted things and battles to be going on without impact from threads that aren't complete). On top of this, threads don't occur in real-time together in parallel with real-world thread progression, some are assumed to have begun or ended at highly-different points than they actually did in relation to one another, with the aforementioned synchronization issues and timeline speed progressions being the reasons said desynchs are permitted. That's why I don't migrate some global changes to certain threads sometimes when stuff otherwise happens. Beyond that, in rarer cases, the BA will fork someone's essence, allowing their soul to control two instances of their body/spirit in different places at the same time with no specific knowledge passing between the two, with awareness of such being blocked.


On the Battle Arena Inn

(6:50:47 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky11@hotmail.com) is the meta medussa always at the front desk?
(6:50:58 PM) lordgadigan: Not necessarily, but usually
(6:53:54 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky11@hotmail.com) how does the inn defend aginst high level foes or does it just never get attacked?
(6:54:25 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (caelzeph) It's where all BA Members hold their stuff. Attacking it would be incredibly unwise.
(6:54:51 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky11@hotmail.com) ya but what are the BA members going to do aginst some thing 600 attacking there stuff?
(6:55:03 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (caelzeph) There are likely BA Members easily in the 600-range.
(6:55:04 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky11@hotmail.com) are there npc BA members higher level than us?
(6:55:08 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky11@hotmail.com) oh ok
(6:55:08 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (caelzeph) Yep.
(6:55:12 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky11@hotmail.com) so we have npc BA members
(6:55:18 PM) lordgadigan: The Nexus Inn itself auto-blocks most attacks. Beyond that, it's part of the overall BA infrastructure, meaning it has access to Mysanomorph response teams if needed. Beyond that, high-Level BA members. Beyond that, Pauline; she's tough enough to handle most threats that would concievably show up. Beyond that, it sometimes doesn't; see, for example, the ability that one of the House Hellstrom guys got to infiltrate BA member rooms.
(6:55:18 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (caelzeph) I think there's at least one in the 10,000+ range.
(6:55:28 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky11@hotmail.com) Reyd should go through the entire hotel and greet every one >.>
(6:55:32 PM) lordgadigan: Oh yes, there are a lot of NPC BA members. The focus is just usually on the PC ones
(6:55:34 PM) lordgadigan: Hahaha
(6:55:40 PM) lordgadigan: That might actually be a sorta fun thread
(6:55:45 PM) lordgadigan: Flesh out the NPC BA Member set some
(6:55:58 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky11@hotmail.com) next mission sey
(6:56:02 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (pathaky11@hotmail.com) set*
(6:56:07 PM) lordgadigan: Kelsius Darkfeather, one of the Ascendants, is the reigning Arena Champion and technically sorta a BA Member; the Ascendant status trumps that, though


On Regret

(2:15:51 PM) fruedestruction: Speaking of anti, is there any element who has "Is meant to counter cheese" in it's traits?
(2:15:56 PM) fruedestruction: Cloest I found so far is Agony.
(2:16:35 PM) lordgadigan: Regret, when it existed, threw people's powers back at them and punished them for making powerful choices.
Beyond that, none that I can specifically think of
(2:16:54 PM) lordgadigan: That's what made it Tier-0. Its power was based on what was used against it for the most part

Draconics: Doesn't the specific subset of Null do this exactly? (See: Antithesis Dragon)
Gadigan: Yes, there is a specific subset of Null that focuses on that sort of thing. I was mentioning Regret because it was a more element-wide thing and less of a persistent-blocking-anti and more of a reactive-turn-your-actions-into-losses-anti.

[The Nottest of Daves]

The Multiverse of the Battle Arena

My friend is starting to take up her writing again and it involved a game-like fantasy setting. I happened to know a good example lore-wise of such and linked her the various setting threads and scattered question threads. She had questions, I told her to write them up so I could go ahead and post them. Some of these I know half the answers too, but not all and I'm curious myself, so I've left the list unaltered other than formatting.

Hello, Friend of Draconics! Welcome to the site. I'm glad you're interested enough in things to be asking these sorts of questions. Hopefully these answers help you out. Feel free to ask more questions if you have more.

Do the beings outside The Barrier know of it? How do they know?

Do they know of it? Sure, plenty of them do (though given the vastness of the 'everything' Outside, more don't than do). It's an anomalous unique presence out there that draws attention from things that are nearby (and it's expanding). Weird unique things tend to generate lots of rumors amongst those peripherally near their location even if those folks haven't seen them personally. It also is the source of forces of projections that get sent out to harvest things from Outside to bring them Inside. That tends to get it a fair bit of overall attention.

What they don't have is reliable, verifiable knowledge of what it's like Inside. They're on the Outside and can't actually look at what's going on in there. All they have to base accounts on the Inside on is what various Projected entities / Projections of Gadigan / The Saints say / report is in there. I don't tend to micromanage daily-life decisions for folks who come In and leave them with a fair amount of choice in how they conduct their general lives, but people on the Outside have no good way to verify that things on the Inside aren't in mindslaves-24/7-mode.

A good number of them are, as a consequence of this, fairly unnerved by it. It's an expanding, indestructible, 'thing' that people get sucked/harvested into. Then versions of those sucked-in people show up outside later, only with complete loyalty to the presences running It. A fair portion of free Sovereigns that know of it consider It / Its 'operators' a major threat on par with Oblivion in terms of dangerousness. One threat destroys all that you are and ends your existence (Oblivion) and the other consumes you and ends your freedom (Gadigan / Barrier).

In other words, depending on your position and priorities, Gadigan might be the second big bad of the setting. Then again, there's also those who see Gadigan as a source of salvation from eventual obliteration.

Are only Eternal Sovereigns the only ones who could be allowed into The Barrier or anyone else (provided they fulfill the conditions)?

Anyone fulfilling the conditions is allowed in. Frankly, the vast majority of things brought In aren't Sovereigns. Sovereigns are huge, rare, valuable catches in the overall scheme of things.

Secondary-note: The phrasing of the question makes it sound like most new additions come in voluntarily. While there's certainly a decent chunk of volunteers / those curious enough about what's going on to enter, the majority of new additions get actively harvested.

Speaking of conditions, how exactly do you purify yourself from Oblivion in order to be let into The Barrier? Do these characters essentially then become lv1 characters after entering? Do they retain their memories from outside?

Generally speaking, you don't purify yourself. The Barrier handles that. It reprocesses anything that enters and filters out unacceptable portions (most notably including any presence of or ability to tap into Oblivion / destroy things forever, but also including things like the ability to countermand direct orders / desires of Gadigan and/or The Saints or otherwise launch some manner of unapproved insurrection).

Sovereigns lose their full-on-Eternal-Sovereign-powers and get them swapped out for a lower-grade-than-Gadigan's version. Beyond that, things tend to keep their prior levels of power. Most Sovereigns who get pulled in will end up in the thousands Level-wise. Others at varying points representative of their overall strength. Something *could* be depowered, but it generally doesn't happen.

Having said that, I feel like I should clarify that while things tend to keep their overall level of power, they don't 'keep' a Level (as in the actual mechanical / setting-existent version of it). The Outside doesn't run on the same mechanics-system as the Inside. Entry Inside formats you so that instead of being under some other Outside location's system, you get the Levels and Stats and other mechanical-type-things that sync you up with the Interior BA setting (assuming you're going to the Inside portions that run off that, which most do).

Is the Storage located anywhere in specific that other characters could accidentally stumble upon them? Would they be able to let anything out by mistake? (Though I did read that only Gadigan and the Saints can access it)

Storage doesn't have a specific physical location related to other dimensions / physical locations. It's somewhere between a location and a state and exists on a more 'meta' level of things than things outside of it tend to. Others can't randomly wander in or let things out.

Part of Storage's point is to serve as a repository for things that don't fit in well with the rest of the universe or the overall operating plans for what will / won't happen at a given point. Things can't actually be destroyed in the Barrier, so Storage offers an alternative 'back into the toybox' type state to keep unwanted presences from junking things up; they can just be pulled out again when desired/required once more.

Do the punishable beings that are put in Storage have access to their powers? Would, say, a God deity be able to project some sort of Avatar body outside? Or simply wreak havoc inside because it thinks it can break out?

Things in Storage don't have power-access. They're in a state of suspended unconsciousness and can't really do anything / interact with anything. While multiple things are in Storage, the general concept of 'spatial proximity' doesn't exist between them. Storage is more a state and meta-location than a place in a normal sense.

There's other places where something could be stuck where it couldn't interact with other stuff directly but could project out avatars / powers, so that's a valid plot-thing, it just wouldn't be happening with Storage.

Amusing thought, have the Sovereigns from outside The Barrier tried to fight off Oblivion? Have they ever asked Gadigan for help?

Oh, absolutely. There's plenty of efforts by Sovereigns out there to fight off Oblivion and its incursions on their domains. There's even several rather-successful alliances that have put up unified fronts against it for ages. The only reason you don't hear about them much at all on the site is that they're Outside, and therefore out of the game's general scope.

Petitioning / asking Gadigan for help has happened, but it's not exactly common. If you're a Sovereign with the ability to contact Gadigan and knowledge of him, but you're still Outside, you're probably someone who actively doesn't want to surrender its full self-control for a limited version thereof by coming Inside. Sure, Gadigan and his projected forces could be a massive weapon to push against some Oblivion incursion / eliminate some Oblivion-empowered threat. But then you have an army of harvest-capable projections around, and you have to either have some escape plan or have to hope they aren't going to forcibly save you from your eventual nullification through harvesting you / your creations / whatever metaverse just got saved from Oblivion. There have been some successful allied fronts against Oblivion, but most Outside Sovereigns don't want to invite one potential problem in to counter a different preexisting problem. Depends on priorities and the Sovereign's views on how things are likely going to pan out in different situations.

[The Nottest of Daves]

Unique and Nonunique Persons

Is the perceived value of life (to be more specific: individuals) in Nexus and/or the universe at large different than those of our modern sensibilities?
Do spawn tables and the extreme ease of just making things make people shrug at things that we would find aberrant/disturbing?

Note: this is not about laws (which are quite different from here, for example legal slavery and illegal EULAs), but rather the morality of the people.

Yes, dependent on a few main factors (with variance between locations, of course).

The first of these is uniqueness. Non-unique people are, for the most part, considered more 'disposable' (with the extent of said disposability varying based on who is making the judgment, non-uniques of the same type from the same area are moderately more likely to care). Most people would be affected for a longer term by the death of Holly Marsh, the unique old lady down the street, than by the guy in the house next to her, who looks the same as sixteen other men in the neighborhood, has the same preferences, same-looking wife, and same-looking son as those guys too (and who might be joined by a seventeenth essentially-identical guy at any point). This is due to:
(a) An inherent lower-priority being placed on non-uniques in most things minds/viewpoints when their mana-patterns are generated
(b) The potential for more of essentially-the-same-thing to spawn
(c) The tendency for nonuniques to possess more-basic behavior patterns / routines and be less-dynamic in their ability to adapt to new circumstances / situations (and tendency to fall into somewhat-robotic behavior to an extent, at least in some cases)

There's a further layer on top of that added by where something spawns / is. If a nonunique person spawns in a city, they'll be treated as a general 'city resident' most of the time and be afforded a general level of respect, with other residents reacting with at least a moderate level of dismay to their death / mutilation / etc. Ones that spawn in dungeons, though, tend to get incorporated as dungeon-encounters (with exceptions sometimes, of course). So a Boomerang Guy who spawns in Town and has a house will get to live as a normal, but unremarkable, resident, whereas a Boomerang Guy who spawns in a funhouse-dungeon in Town will be treated as a dungeon monster and people won't really care if adventurers go shank him for treasure. On the flipside, entities that spawn in dungeons are usually given more of a level of 'well, it's a monster, it gets to do that', when they do things like attack people who walk near them. The Boomerang Guy in the house would get arrested (or possibly killed) if he started boomeranging his neighbors (probably, at least), whereas the one in the dungeon could kill a team of adventurers (even unique ones), and it wouldn't really attract much hate from people nearby / the authorities (after all, the adventurers were in the dungeon and the Boomerang Guy was clearly an encounter-hazard).

This isn't to say that in Nexus or other places that crimes against these nonunique people will go unpunished. The reasoning is just a bit different in most cases. The main reason in Nexus (note that this isn't the main reason in areas with more 'good' or 'human-focused' or other sorts of governments) is geomantic stability, not respect for the life or personhood of those individuals. Murder/theft/other crimes against individuals would, over time, shift an area's geomantic thematics, regardless of whether the targets were nonunique or unique. Criminals would start spawning, as 'crime' became a factor that defined the environment. This would screw with the area's pre-existing themes. In isolated areas or in discs that thematically are expected to be like that, it isn't really an issue. If it starts happening too much across Nexus as a whole, though. 'crime' (and by extension, a weakness of law) become endemic to the patterns of Nexus itself. This would result in criminal elements starting to spawn in areas of Nexus distinct from those where the crime occurring in defiance of standard thematics. This would run the risk of some massive city-of-discs-wide crime wave spawning (and, in particularly dire theoretical cases, unseating the Administration). The Five-Man Mafia is the revealed organization that has gotten the closest to triggering something like this, though there have been a few worse cases in the period between Shalmarkion's forces being driven out and the Administration's return to power. Master Szi-Lan-Duang is running a much less-progressed version of the same thing in an intentional gambit against the Administration, passively training individuals who semi-often go on to become a variety of dangerous anti-Nexus-government individuals; he's being careful to not overextend himself so far, though.

On the note of 'crime', though, it's worth noting that for all the lower-priority assigned to nonuniques, they generally attract less attention if they're acting disruptive but in-their-general-nature. A gang of nonunique bikers that rides around and attacks people sometimes get a level of being excused from wide-range responses (local authorities would still generally try to deal with it) due to it being a more-expected part of their mental 'programming' / behavior-set. Nonuniques also tend to disrupt area mana patterns and geomantic feng-shui less. Ten thousand nonunique bikers riding around might (if distributed in enough of a wide net) have less of an impact on a disc's geomantic stability than a single unique punk robbing a single store. Narrative weight varies by individual, though, and different areas have different tolerance-levels for different things before they start to shift what they spawn / how they are defined.

Summons tend to get even less consideration than nonuniques (at least talking about the spawned-on-summon summons and not the called-from-somewhere ones). There's a general level of expectation that the summons are disposable, temporary, and subservient to their summoners. People from some places might be freaked out if you called a guy into being to trigger a falling block trap or summoned someone and ordered him to perform some manner of sex act on you, but people from a lot of other places would see the summon as more of a 'tool' than a 'person'. Summons that are called from other places or that come from effects that are designed to be 'permanent' in a narrative sense are generally excused from this and seen more in the same manner as spawns (with the same sort of variance based on their uniqueness).

Dungeon spawns are meant to be fought. The populace of kaiju-attracting cities cycles each invasion as it gets torn through and rebuilt, with people panicking during the attacks but not really dealing with lasting grief or dissatisfaction with their home in the long-term. Soldiers spawned in armies are killed by the droves as forces clash, with the unique high-command members of the warring sides being the ones that are remembered and whose deaths are mourned.

That's in general terms, though. Some areas and some groups of people act notably differently. The average Paladin would be horrified by abuse of sentient life, regardless of whether it's nonunique or summoned (though they'd probably see the summoned soldiers dying in war as 'expected' so long as it was fair battle and would be fine with fighting dungeon monsters, even human/humanoid/sentient ones (provided they were aggressive as per standard and didn't try to parley or something)). Constable General Dorian Cort thinks it's fairly whacked of Nexus to be fine with huge groups of actively-evil beings operating on various discs because it's in-theme for those discs and entities. Etcetera.

This only hits the major points of the issue, but I think it's the sort of general response appropriate to a general version of that question.

Do uniques that act in-their-general-nature also given more leniency than nonuniques that act in-their-general-nature?

I'm going to answer what I think this question was asking and provide a clarifying statement. If my answer doesn't answer you, you can try asking again with different phrasing.

Uniques that act in their general nature are afforded more leniency than uniques acting outside their general nature (or that have highly mutable natures), similar to how nonuniques acting within their nature are afforded additional leniency.

Uniques aren't given more leniency than non-uniques for the most part; they're given more importance/prominence. Crimes by uniques are generally treated more-seriously (as they have more of a chance of affecting things), even if non-uniques are treated as having less value (and therefore actions against them are typically treated as less severe).

Are there ways to make your actions have no effect on geomantic stabilty?

Veilwalkers are pretty good at this if they go up the right branches. Their magic lets them make areas treat them like they aren't there in various ways and can essentially make them 'invisible' on a geomantic-impact level.

Geomancers, Illusionists, Subspace Architects, and mana-pattern-specializing Scholars also have various tricks for minimizing their geomantic impact. Using Mask True Power helps reduce some types of ambient geomantic impact too.

Does the post about ethics of uniques/nonuniques/summons and so also apply to some level to the rest of the universe?

On a general level, yes. That having been said, there are some worlds/dimensions with different ethical codes / priorities, so it isn't a 100%-reliable setting-guide even if it is a generally-useful one.


Addendums to my answer to Frue's latest question:

1.) Non-uniques that are related/connected to uniques get afforded more station than ones that aren't. They stand more of a chance of somehow transitioning to unique themselves, and they carry more overall narrative/cosmic weight.

2.) Another really big factor: If something is conclusively determined to not have a soul-layer soul (as opposed to a spirit-layer soul or a mechanical-type soul or something), then it's pretty much universally not considered a 'person' (because it isn't). It's a philosophical zombie running off of scripted universal processes in its mana pattern that has no true 'awareness'. Some things get souls after a time when they lack them, though, so this isn't necessarily a permanent thing.

[The Nottest of Daves]

Using Deific Domains in Roleplay

oh, question
for deific domains, how does that work rp wise?
Gadigan — Today at 5:30 PM
It ties the concepts involved to your divine powers and allows you to exercise them over those things. The degree of control you have depends on investment in classes like Priest and Worldbound God.
Kitsune106 — Today at 5:32 PM
ah. so the more priest, the better? what is you have class name in abilities? like for kit with lesser deific, time, how would being expert temproal primarch help?
just curious
Gadigan — Today at 5:34 PM
The more Priest the better, yes.
Class name in abilities is enough grounding to do some stuff, but actual deities would be expected to have higher to gain sweeping control - you'd probably want at least Expert if you wanted to focus in it.
Having Expert Temporal Primarch is, on its own, very good at controlling time. With it being so much higher than your Priest, you'd be using the divine domain as an enhancer to the Temporal Primarch rather than vice-versa - it would give you a divine mandate over the power and add your 'is a deity' personal impact to it a bit better, but would otherwise be a boost to the existing Temporal Primarch stuff.
Having more backing from different skill sets pretty much always helps, assuming you aren't fighting something that can backdoor them into weaknesses
Kitsune106 — Today at 5:35 PM
ah. just was curious. so same with wards?
and thank you
Gadigan — Today at 5:36 PM
Yes, the same would apply with wards
You're welcome
To be clear: Having the divine domains helps you out - it's just they're your secondary skillset based on current build emphasis
If you got Priest up to Expert, you'd be able to hand out specific blessings and control the domains from multiple angles - the deific angle as well as the elemental angle you already have
Kitsune106 — Today at 5:37 PM
probably can post this and makes sense.
Gadigan — Today at 5:38 PM
Yes, please do post this

[19:12] Ordo Hereticus: Also, it prompted a few questions on my end
[19:13] Gadigan: Yes?
[19:13] Ordo Hereticus: 1. What classes would work to bolster control over Fear?
[19:13] Gadigan: Doombringer immediately comes to mind
[19:13] Gadigan: There'd be a sub-branch of Mentalist for it, and you could apply a lot of the skills there even if it isn't a base thing
[19:13] Gadigan: The Terror element class
[19:14] Gadigan: Nothing else is springing to mind, but I know there's more out there
[19:14] Ordo Hereticus: Warlock, perhaps?
[19:14] Gadigan: Vermin Lord would have a sub-branch, but that's niche application rather than general control
[19:14] Gadigan: I considered it
[19:15] Gadigan: Warlock is good overall with debuffs and negative status effects
[19:15] Gadigan: It focuses a bit more on the magical than the mental
[19:15] Gadigan: But it would still have some, yeah
[19:15] Gadigan: Better at Hexed and curses, mind you
[19:15] Gadigan: I really should go through and do updated class info blocks
[19:15] Gadigan: Celas wants them too
[19:16] Gadigan: It'll leave even bigger holes in actual statted content
[19:16] Gadigan: But could help with RP
[19:16] Ordo Hereticus: I support this venture
[19:16] Gadigan: Might merge it with that CYOA effort I was trying to push
[19:16] Gadigan: Might also do it bit by bit in chat to get live feedback
[19:16] Gadigan: Since that - as long as I'm not getting distracted by side-chats, which is a HUGE risk, tends to increase my motivation to talk about BA things
[19:17] Ordo Hereticus: Sounds good to me!
[19:17] Ordo Hereticus: Next question:
[19:17] Ordo Hereticus: 2. What class does Dulcinea actually need to pump up as her Divine Entity type? Does it differ based on where the Divine Domain comes from?
[19:19] Gadigan: It does matter to an extent, yeah - if you're an Arch-Daemon, you'd get boosts from Priest, Puppet Master, Worldbound God, and, to a lesser extent, Rune Mage
[19:20] Gadigan: Worldbound God helps with basically all deity types
[19:20] Gadigan: Priest too
[19:20] Gadigan: Other things help on a limited basis
[19:20] Gadigan: Like Demon Magic for Demons
[19:20] Gadigan: Or Celestial Magic for Celestials
[19:20] Gadigan: Or Paladin for all the upper-planar types
[19:21] Ordo Hereticus: And the first part of the question?
[19:22] Ordo Hereticus: Because Dulcinea is weird and has her divinity-granting ability in Miracle Engineer
[19:22] Gadigan: What type is she?
[19:22] Gadigan: Miracle Engineer?
[19:22] Ordo Hereticus: she's an Outsider
[19:22] Gadigan: Please post whatever she has deity-wise
[19:22] Gadigan: I'm juggling gaming night and only paying partial attention - sorry
[19:23] Ordo Hereticus: Inbuilt Miracle-Engine for a Heart- (Passive Ability, Other: Miracle Engineer) Possessor is a deity and possesses a deity profile. Possessor counts as having an additional Miracle Engine equipped.
Miracle-Engine-Heart Activation- (Active Ability, Other: Miracle Engineer) Possessor may, up to (Possessor's Level / 5, rounded up) times per thread, spend an action to replicate an action performable by an entity of lower Level that is normally fightable on the Enemy List for drops as though an instance of said entity were performing said action

Bestow Worshipper Benefit: Unearthly Fear- (Passive Ability, Other: Worldbound God) Possessor may choose for possessor's Devout Worshippers to obtain the following Worshipper Benefit: Unearthly Fear- Instances of Confusion: Fear with possessor as a source, whenever they cause an action to be skipped, deal their possessor ((Possessor's Level, to a max of possessor's Patron Deity's Level -1)*2,000) Flat Darkness & Psychic element Damage, Worshipper Benefit
Lesser Deific Domain: Fear- (Passive Ability, Other: Worldbound God) Possessor and possessor's allies gain a +(Possessor's Level)% bonus to their Confusion: Fear infliction chances, Possessor gains Confusion: Fear Immunity, Possessor has RP powers connected to this divine domain
[19:24] Gadigan: Priest, Worldbound God, Miracle Engineer

Probably a tiny bit from regular Engineer, the Technomancy class, and a few other things, but the above would be the main
[19:24] Gadigan: Probably minor amounts from any Miracle Engineer prereqs too
[19:25] Ordo Hereticus: Thank you

[The Nottest of Daves]

On Wonder and Progress

[22:11] Gadigan: Brief tangent
[22:11] Gadigan: Wonder
[22:11] Gadigan: Wonder makes pretty much everything better
[22:11] Gadigan: Is 'makes everything a T2' a good description of it?
[22:11] Gadigan: Yes, in a lot of ways it is
[22:11] Gadigan: It makes things able to do more
[22:11] Gadigan: And also to be better at what they are
[22:12] Gadigan: Wonder takes things and makes them their best selves
[22:12] Gadigan: The opposite would be Turpitude
[22:12] Gadigan: Which grinds at things, twists them, and makes them their worst selves
[22:12] Gadigan: Regret, for comparison, turns things against themselves
[22:12] Gadigan: And makes an opponent's powers their weaknesses
[22:12] Gadigan: Now
[22:12] Gadigan: How does Progress fit into this
[22:13] Gadigan: There's a similarity in that they can make other things better
[22:13] Gadigan: But
[22:13] Gadigan: Wonder, on its own, does little
[22:13] Gadigan: And it enhances things in specific ways
[22:13] Gadigan: Progress, by contrast
[22:13] Gadigan: Can work by itself
[22:13] Gadigan: And can expand things in all sorts of direction
[22:13] Gadigan: Wonder lets you sail a boat on the tune of a song
[22:13] Gadigan: Progress could upgrade the boat
[22:13] Gadigan: Or upgrade the song
[22:13] Gadigan: Or could make one start resisting a sea of acid
[22:14] Gadigan: And if the acid ends up full of sharks
[22:14] Gadigan: It could slap shark-repelling on the vocals
[22:14] Gadigan: Progress is reality warping via iterative improvement and continual reperfection
[22:14] Gadigan: It keeps making things better and better, reshaping them in the progress and adapting them to new circumstances
[22:14] Gadigan: It has technological thematics
[22:14] Gadigan: And revolves around building/upgrading
[22:15] Gadigan: So it's slower and requires more mental effort than Dream
[22:15] Gadigan: But it's also more robust, mixing Mind on top of Constitution for reactive defenses
[22:15] Gadigan: Constructs of pure Progress start fairly featureless, but reactively adapt to what they're facing
[22:16] Gadigan: Whereas Wonder needs anchor-points and expands them in notable, but fixed-when-applied, directions
[22:16] Gadigan: I think that's one of the difference points
[22:16] Gadigan: Progress can keep slapping fixes onto things
[22:16] Gadigan: And if you're in a long battle
[22:16] Gadigan: It gains the advantage
[22:16] Gadigan: Because its point of 'runs out of steam and starts being overcome' is so much farther out than most other things
[22:16] Gadigan: It keeps getting better rather than getting stale
[22:17] Gadigan: And builds momentum over time in battle
[22:17] Gadigan: Unless someone is using another T3 or something like Regret to counter it
[22:17] Gadigan: But
[22:17] Gadigan: Wonder can be used with a big flash
[22:17] Gadigan: Then you use it again and again
[22:17] Gadigan: And each time
[22:17] Gadigan: It resculpts less
[22:17] Gadigan: Unless given a cooldown period
[22:17] Gadigan: Where the Wonder-enhanced thing adapts to its new shape
[22:18] Gadigan: And that becomes 'what it is' rather than 'what it has become'
[22:18] Gadigan: Because Wonder makes things new and better
[22:18] Gadigan: But it does it in concise bursts
[22:18] Gadigan: So it's good to augment everything, but you can't keep pouring it at the same thing and expecting it to keep getting better
[22:18] Gadigan: Evolution has the gets-better-iteratively aspect
[22:18] Gadigan: But there's more defined boundaries than with Progress
[22:18] Gadigan: Evolution takes things as their own basepoint
[22:19] Gadigan: Extrapolates from there
[22:19] Gadigan: Has a biological focus
[22:19] Gadigan: And improves in response to stimuli
[22:19] Gadigan: Progress can expand in directions that something doesn't really have to start with
[22:19] Gadigan: Like Wonder
[22:19] Gadigan: And doesn't really require continued stimuli
[22:19] Gadigan: Though they can help
[22:19] Gadigan: Does that help out?
[22:20] The Nottest of Daves: I don't know what prompted this
[22:20] The Nottest of Daves: but I am very pleased to find these things out
[22:20] The Nottest of Daves: so it's useful to me!
[22:20] Gadigan: Glad it helped!
[22:21] The Nottest of Daves: Though it does make me wonder what happens if you use Wonder and Progress at once on the same thing
[22:22] The Nottest of Daves: Do you get a big initial burst of effectiveness (larger than Progress alone), and then the iterative improvement kicks in?
[22:22] Gadigan: Yes, assuming you have enough of both that one doesn't just overshadow the other
[22:23] The Nottest of Daves: given the difference of tier, where exactly does that fall?
[22:24] The Nottest of Daves: Would Wonder need to be a tier ahead of Progress (Expert vs Adept), or would equivalent levels (Adept/Adept) be close enough?
[22:27] Gadigan: Equivalent level would be enough to allow for a boost, but having Wonder a tier ahead would be needed to make them more equal in utility-for-Level, though Progress remains better at getting around people's ability to handle skillsets
[22:28] Gadigan: But Adept/Adept would still give you a stronger launch-springboard

[The Nottest of Daves]

On controlling newly-made Elements

[22:48] Celas: I'm actually gonna pull this over here
[22:48] Celas: so as not to interrupt the Q&A stuff
[22:48] Celas: but it's BA-topic
[22:49] Celas: [12:44 AM] Santooth: By the by
[12:44 AM] Santooth: Loss is now entirely out of the bag. Turpitude is not, at least not <yet>.
[12:45 AM] Santooth: If you want to cement Anathema as the focal point of that element, I'd suggest you act on it sooner rather than later.
[22:49] Celas: So I'm gonna talk this out here and what I'm thinking about it
[22:50] Celas: Because I love that Element for her, haha
[22:50] The One True Pathaky: Turpentine!
[22:50] Celas: Gonna kinda detour a bit into a lot of recent things, though
[22:50] Celas: to do some setup
[22:50] The One True Pathaky: An element that strips other elements
[22:50] The One True Pathaky: Specifically anti-Color
[22:51] Celas: hahah
[22:52] Celas: [10:37 PM] Celas: One of the things I've been thinking about
[10:38 PM] Celas: between reading and Celas's Civilization build
[10:38 PM] Celas: is the concept of Authority
(followed randomly later by)
[11:52 PM] Celas: Hmmm.
[11:52 PM] Celas: that's a thought.
[11:52 PM] Celas: Authority as a concept might just fundamentally Stop At Your Level.
[11:53 PM] Celas: hope that's not the case, but
[11:53 PM] Celas: "below user's level" shows up basically universally on things like that
(I do that. Pick up trains of thought I had hours/days later)
[22:52] Gadigan: Path, you may have just made an Imaginary Element
[22:52] Celas: Which then later on got confirmed by Gad in Q&A stuff
[22:52] The Nottest of Daves: anti-Color?
[22:52] Gadigan: Turpentine
[22:53] The Nottest of Daves: oho
[22:53] The Nottest of Daves: hahaha
[22:53] The One True Pathaky: Inflicts Melted
[22:53] The One True Pathaky: Or rather can turn instances of Color into Melted
[22:53] Celas: So my operating theory, in essence, is that anything we control is kind of related to our authority level, more or less, and is straight-up subject to being jacked by someone up the totem pole
[22:53] Celas: no matter what effort we put into it or angles we take at it
[22:53] Celas: Short of jumping into the Well, there's no real way to keep hold of an Element like that
[22:54] Celas: Which, hey, it was a nice dream and I'm still super stoked to have it, but that's just not the way the BA works.
[22:55] Celas: Or am I wrong about this and it's hypothetically possible to actually pull off?
[22:55] Celas: Forcystus seemed pretty confident about Corruption, and all.
[22:55] The One True Pathaky: Because Level is the overriding Central Power Mechanic?
[22:55] Celas: Yeah
[22:56] Celas: And, I mean, we can be fundamentally tied to it on a plot level such that our actions influence it on the wide scale
[22:56] Celas: which is still really excellent
[22:56] Celas: but having our own personal Element is just a metaphysical nonstarter
[22:57] Celas: Even if I were to load up with, I dunno, call it the full gamut of Reality Auditor and Elemental Researcher and whatnot, it's still fair game to anything that looks at it and goes "yeah, I want that" and is higher level
[22:58] Celas: And while I could, y'know, give it to Doctor Beak and that'd be second-best to keeping it myself
[22:58] Celas: full control seems outright impossible
[23:00] Celas: One of the first things I thought about comboing with it was Living Plague, on account of it being nebulously Anathema herself and also explicitly loyal to her, which could have interesting effects if the property was instilled in the Element.
[23:01] Celas: Even potentially influencing it in the long run, even with other users
[23:01] Celas: (though that was back when I thought it was Corruption 2.0, Contagion Boogaloo)
[23:02] Celas: (I reconsidered that angle when its true nature was discussed)
[23:03] Celas: (and remember, I straight up had "Create (or in this case Finish) an Elemental Source" as one of my possible gambits. Controlling an Element as a PC is something I've thought a lot about for years)
[23:17] Gadigan: You're pretty much correct here, Celas.

There's a few angles to retain more control. The first is what you mentioned - give it to an allied power and have the focus still be mostly on you since it'd be a minor powerset for that power, but that power would have the Level to retain broader control.
[23:18] Gadigan: The second would be the Prince Charming and STEVE method - pick something so obnoxiously niche or low-power that strong things don't want to damage their own brand by connecting themselves to it in any major way, so it'd be more a bizarre albatross than a power source
[23:20] Gadigan: The third would be the Forcystus method - Grab control of it from an early stage, then immediately embroil it in a megaquest-scale event so that there's multiversal reach, but little ability for greater powers to interact with it, then ride it forward through that, offering it opportunities to expand, while keeping it so that anyone who takes it up either has it hit them in a hostile manner or is somehow under your thrall - find a method to actively monitor / connect it so that it is one big blob that you can pull at the periphery of and guide, make it a central feature of the major events, then swing the major events so you're playing for yourself and not for some other major power. Then find a way to win. That... still doesn't guarantee it super-long-term, but it helps.
[23:21] Gadigan: In general, you are correct that Level is the overriding determinant, things can take control of stuff that is held by people in lower brackets - even integral stuff, and that the likelihood of that happening increases as stuff spreads and becomes more of a juicy target
[23:21] Gadigan: But that a personal connection is still thematically maintained (which helps!) even once that happens
[23:22] Gadigan: Darston is connected to Evolution and Will even though they're beyond him now
[23:22] Gadigan: Lili to Grandeur
[23:22] Gadigan: Doctor Miracles to Azoth
[23:22] Gadigan: Etc

[Lord Gadigan]

[1:31 AM]Gadigan: Haha
[1:31 AM]Gadigan: Any one or two elements or subtypes you want me to provide early descriptions on?
[1:31 AM]Gadigan: Probably leaving soon, and you may want for me to do the whole list before deciding
[1:31 AM]Gadigan: But I'm up for one or two answers (like the above if Celas doesn't mention any in particular)
[1:34 AM]Celas: Foreigner, please!

The current plan is for the Imaginary Entity Subtypes to be both T1 and T2, counting as T2 when something requires they be one and not the other.

This was the initial blurb from the translation thread, but I don't plan on using those as definitive bases - moreso as initial wellsprings of ideas to then diverge from:

Foreigners - Alainsta
Non-living objects and non-living organisms that 'live' mainly in non-metallic environments, not in space or in the air. People considering this subtype are encouraged to think about the Essence of D&D and things only found beneath the sidewalks around fancy rustic Italian hotels. Anything that doesn't meet these requirements is not 'in line' with the subtype. Other things covered by the subtype are Science Films, Robotic Basting Racers, the sons of alien androids, and men from UN Planets (but not other planets, because of legal arguments about whether men from other planets count as Foreigners or not).
Training/Summoning/Pet Aspect: Promotions, Calling alternative versions of Subtype Institutions
Being-The-Entity Aspect: Ignoring the specific effects of Earth-element things affecting Earth and also things that equate Earth to the Planet Earth; making it difficult to overcome debuffs that are applied as secondary effects, reaching the initial objectives one sets out to achieve in quests.

Foreigner is an Imaginary Terrestrial (Civilized) entity subtype.

Foreigners come from places that are 'foreign'. They tend to have funny accents, unusual manners of dress, and exotic cuisines. Their homes, like their subtype, are generally Imaginary, with concerted effort required to manifest them into reality. While in reality, they have a tendency to travel from place to place, undertaking various quests while also seeing tourist attractions, purchasing souveniers, and enjoying local meals. They tend to lair in fancy hotels and may spawn in hotel-themed dungeons (or, if a critical mass of non-unique Foreigners is present, turn a normal hotel into a dungeon). They are skilled with technology, but tend to work poorly with metal (both in general and the element Metal in particular) - this leads to them often having alternate technology bases, such as crystal-tech, necro-tech, bio-tech, living wood constructs, sentient fabric-weaving, or other, more exotic things. They travel primarily by ground-based, tunneling, and waterborne vessels, and are able to travel between planets and dimensions upon said means of travel (ignoring intervening stretches of outer space). They are highly resistant to weather and terrain based effects, including Geomancy, are skilled with esoteric debuffs that are sticky and difficult to remove via traditional cures, and tend to have inbuilt divination that helps them find what they are looking for (including the means to complete a quest). The friendlier ones are pleasant and add character to locales while solving problems, the majority are just doing tourist stuff, and the more aggressive subspecies have a tendency to rove around as particularly dangerous murder hoboes. Some Foreigners appear like humans (even particularly cute humans) at first, but can unzip or unlock-and-open their bodies to become bizarre aberrations akin to Darkspawn and Outer Terrors.