Realm of Gadigan

Assault Matrices, with a Digression on Alchemy wrote: [16:23] Gadigan: Assault Matrix
[16:23] Gadigan: Matrix Keeper
[16:23] Gadigan: Assault Matrixes focus on applying Mind to Ranged Attacks.
[16:24] Gadigan: They create lots of small nodes or points, encircle things with them, and then fire from those points
[16:24] Gadigan: Though they can also be used as bits or options
[16:24] Gadigan: Circling around the wielder and firing
[16:24] Gadigan: They are good at disassembly
[16:24] Gadigan: And through disassembly, analysis
[16:24] Gadigan: They synergize with Hypertech
[16:24] Gadigan: And Technology
[16:25] Gadigan: A bit of Divination and Thief synergy, but not a ton
[16:25] The One True Pathaky: The Thief synergy through like, remote stealing or something?
[16:25] Gadigan: They can also be set up magically
[16:25] Gadigan: To disassemble/beam with magic
[16:25] Gadigan: Rather than ranged
[16:25] The One True Pathaky: /dissassembly-theft?
[16:25] Gadigan: Thief synergy is actually through hacking, mostly
[16:25] The One True Pathaky: Ah, interesting.
[16:25] Gadigan: Where you set the nodes up around a structure, hack from a bunch of points
[16:26] Gadigan: Though you could probably pull some 'send out the bits, tear apart, collect samples, return' on something that has inherently valuable organs or the like
[16:27] Gadigan: Questions on Assault Matrixes?
[16:27] Gadigan: I suppose they'd work well with Danmaku
[16:28] Gadigan: What with encircling something and then firing in patterns from points
[16:28] The Nottest of Daves: Technomancy
[16:28] Gadigan: Yes, they work well with it
[16:29] The Nottest of Daves: What about Alchemy or other somewhat science-adjacent spell classes?
[16:29] The Nottest of Daves: like Blight Magic
[16:30] The Nottest of Daves: or Artificer
[16:30] The Nottest of Daves: Biomancy
[16:31] Gadigan: Alchemy doesn't really synergize with it too much. The Matrix isn't as good at introducing/mixing/deploying things that aren't energy beams / its base ammo
[16:32] Gadigan: Blight Magic isn't particularly Science-adjacent - I can see the pollution angle, but Assault Matrixes are more from a sleek, advanced future than a dismal, dross-choked one
[16:32] Gadigan: Artificer has minor synergy, in that it could be used to upgrade one some, but isn't a major overlap
[16:32] Gadigan: Biomancy doesn't work too well with them - Assault Matrixes are typically inorganic
[16:32] The One True Pathaky: Blight Magic is more anti-druid, right?
[16:32] Gadigan: There are, of course, ways to get around all these non-synergies - weird sub-trees and skill sets
[16:32] The One True Pathaky: Like, still drawing from the natural magic well, just awful?
[16:33] Gadigan: But I'm talking baseline
[16:33] Gadigan: And yes, Blight Magic is anti-druid, draws from natural magic in an awful/decay/plague/insects/fungi direction
[16:34] Gadigan: In the CYOA version, Alchemy is grouped with Rogue stuff, Blight Magic on Priest, Artificer on Wizard
Biomancy would be the one on Scientist alongside Assault Matrix
[16:34] Gadigan: That's the other version, though
16:34] Gadigan: Including this bit so you get a bit more of an idea where things are
[16:34] Gadigan: Alchemy is interesting in that
[16:34] Gadigan: It can draw from science
[16:34] Gadigan: It can draw from magic
[16:34] Gadigan: It can draw from both
[16:34] Gadigan: It can draw from 'natural' components
[16:34] Gadigan: It can pull from most sources
[16:35] Gadigan: And is frequently not disabled on other worlds where other things are
[16:35] Gadigan: You pretty much have to either be running an entirely abstandard local set of metaphysics
[16:35] Gadigan: Or specifically be shutting down alchemy
[16:35] Gadigan: To shut down alchemy
[16:35] Gadigan: Now, that doesn't mean it's good against everything or that it gets around defenses well
[16:35] Gadigan: It's not. It's a base subtype thing (that isn't Ethereal Magic) and doesn't have problems being resisted
[16:36] Gadigan: But
[16:36] Gadigan: It's hard to actually turn off
[16:36] Gadigan: Artifice, similarly, can work some with tech, even if at a baseline it skews more magic
[16:36] Gadigan: And is hard-ish to broadly shut down
[16:36] Gadigan: Though sub-branches are easier to shut down
[16:36] Gadigan: Than Alchemy is
[16:37] Gadigan: You could turn off the magic portion, or the tech portion, or if you hit both, it's pretty dead in the water
[16:37] Gadigan: Whereas alchemy isn't
[16:38] Gadigan: Psychic environments - mind realms - are probably the most common thing capable of turning off alchemy
[16:38] Gadigan: And even then
[16:38] Gadigan: There's mind-alchemist sub branches that don't go down and let the other stuff stay up
[16:38] The One True Pathaky: So Alchemy's a good "sticky" magic class in that it's based in most conventional systems of reality
[16:38] Gadigan: Correct

Bailartixes wrote:[16:40] Gadigan: Circling back to the weapons list, next up is the Bailartix
[16:40] Gadigan: Weapon of the Soldreidrethanoi
[16:40] Gadigan: Probably one of the oddest base weapon types
[16:40] Gadigan: Has two parts - the staff/handle and the blade/spinning object
[16:40] Gadigan: Spinning object hovers above the handle while at rest, slowly spinning
[16:40] Gadigan: Gets released and directed
[16:40] Gadigan: Usually with the second hand
[16:40] Gadigan: Sometimes with the same hand holding the stick
[16:41] Gadigan: Sometimes the mind or a preset series of commands
[16:41] Gadigan: On rare occasions it's intelligent
[16:41] Gadigan: Spinning bit goes off in a pattern, slicing through things/cutting them up (or smash-dashing them if a spinning ball or something)
[16:41] Gadigan: (Blades are more common than balls)
[16:42] Gadigan: (with the whole blade being edged - no handle since the handle is the part it spins above rather than part of the blade itself)
[16:42] Gadigan: On the directed arc
[16:42] Gadigan: Once the attack arc is finished
[16:42] Gadigan: By default it returns to above the handle bit
[16:42] Gadigan: But
[16:42] Gadigan: They're good at staying out in swooping patterns
[16:42] Gadigan: They're good at using for repeated attacks and repeated actions
[16:43] Gadigan: They can apply both mind and spirit
[16:43] Gadigan: Directed mentally or with magical power
[16:43] Gadigan: They're good at carrying or moving effects
[16:43] Gadigan: Carry buffs from the wielder to allied targets
[16:43] Gadigan: Carry debuffs or negative effects from wielder to opponents
[16:43] Gadigan: Hit something, take something from it, move it to something else
[16:44] Gadigan: Associations with both theft and charity
[16:44] Gadigan: Stronger associations on the charity side
[16:44] Gadigan: And better at just handing things out than stealing them
[16:44] The One True Pathaky: (Santa-fy them)
[16:44] Gadigan: But still good at the stealing
[16:44] The One True Pathaky: (Santadreidrethanoi)
[16:44] Gadigan: They'd actually synergize surprisingly well with Santas
[16:44] Gadigan: Haha
[16:44] Gadigan: Biggest class overlaps are Wizard and Sage
[16:44] Gadigan: Particularly good at carrying Wizard Magic effects
[16:45] Gadigan: But also pretty decent at Healer Magic and some other things
[16:45] Gadigan: Sage improves the Staff
[16:45] Gadigan: And the bottom half of the weapon
[16:45] Gadigan: Is a staff 99%-ish of the time
[16:45] Gadigan: And can actually kind of be wielded like one while the blade is out there doing some repeating thing
[16:45] Gadigan: Also synergy with things that make someone good with video games
[16:45] The One True Pathaky: Can't wait for someone to rock a Xitraliab
[16:45] Gadigan: Not a build combo that's common in NPCs
[16:45] Gadigan: Because they tend to not be from the same worlds
[16:45] Gadigan: But
[16:46] The One True Pathaky: (Hold a ball, send a stick to bonk people)
[16:46] Gadigan: The bottom half is a controller
[16:46] Gadigan: Haha
[16:46] Gadigan: The weapon type is also good at
[16:46] Gadigan: Being confusing
[16:46] Gadigan: As a serious, narrative thing, even if it's also a joke based on it being one of the most bizarrely-named and BA-unique weapons
[16:47] Gadigan: Techniques using the weapon tend to be annoying to analyze and counter
[16:47] Gadigan: Relying on strange principles that the weapons sometimes carry with them rather than being in the area already
[16:47] Gadigan: And being from fewer worlds than a lot of other base subtype things
[16:47] Gadigan: Questions on the Bailartix?
[16:47] The One True Pathaky: Channeler?
[16:47] The One True Pathaky: Thinking about it's association with transference
[16:48] Gadigan: Yes, that synergizes well with it, particularly the 'move effects' or 'mass distribute effects' bits
[16:48] The One True Pathaky: How about War Magic for the "Exploits Repeating Effects" part?
[16:48] Gadigan: Probably helps the steal bit even more than Thief does
[16:48] Gadigan: Hm
[16:48] Gadigan: Interesting question there
[16:48] The One True Pathaky: War Magic is usually much more AoE
[16:49] Gadigan: I think there's potential for mutual boosting, but not synergy, if that makes sense - if someone is good at both Bailartix wielding and at casting War Magic, then casts War Magic that repeats, using the Bailartix as a vector, it gets oomph from both, and they don't work against each other, but they don't naturally flow together and wouldn't help much at lower proficiency levels
[16:49] The One True Pathaky: Gotcha
[16:50] Gadigan: I'll note that in the CYOA system
[16:50] Gadigan: Assault Matrix is grouped as a subweapon of Drone
[16:50] Gadigan: And Bailartix as a subweapon of Staff
[16:50] Gadigan: In that format
[16:51] Gadigan: Having a parent weapon-type extends some of its skills and boosts to the subweapons
[16:51] Gadigan: And the others in reverse to the parent weapon, to a smaller degree
[16:51] Gadigan: That's more prominent in that version of the BA system
[16:51] Gadigan: But
[16:51] Gadigan: It's based on associations that are present in the BA
[16:51] Gadigan: So
[16:51] Gadigan: Drone class applies stuff to Assault Matrixes (and a bit in reverse)
[16:52] Gadigan: And Staff class to Bailartix (and a bit in reverse)
[16:52] Gadigan: Drone is nonbase in the BA, which makes it wonkier to get
[16:52] Gadigan: But
[16:52] Gadigan: Still applies
[16:52] The One True Pathaky: The drone connection helps me understand more of the intent behind the weapon there
[16:52] The One True Pathaky: Er, on the Assault Matrix side
[16:53] Gadigan: Alternate classname for Assault Matrix from the CYOA
[16:53] Gadigan: Is Calculator
[16:53] Gadigan: Instead of Matrix Keeper
[16:53] Gadigan: Good to hear!
[16:53] Gadigan: So keep that in mind - Calculator is probably going to be a subtree here on the BA
[16:53] Gadigan: There's math effects and pattern effects in there

Axes, with a Digression on Shouts as a Potential Spell Type wrote: [16:53] Gadigan: Axe
[16:54] Gadigan: Ravager as the class
[16:54] Gadigan: Bailartix was a Wizard weapon
[16:54] Gadigan: Assault Matrix for Scientist
[16:54] Gadigan: Axe goes to Warrior
[16:54] Caelzeph: One of the classes of ANGRY
[16:54] Gadigan: It's the berserker weapon
[16:54] Gadigan: Yes
[16:54] Gadigan: The axe hits hard
[16:54] Gadigan: But it hits wildly
[16:54] Gadigan: It chops through defenses
[16:55] Gadigan: Leaves big, exploitable holes in armor and wounds
[16:55] Caelzeph: (Insert Random Axe of Charity clause here)
[16:55] Gadigan: Synergizes with Wounded
[16:55] The One True Pathaky: (Sometimes has wild wind-up)
[16:55] Gadigan: Gives high attack boosts for defense penalties
[16:55] Gadigan: Gives attack boosts and mass attacks in exchange for having trouble backing down or possibly striking allies
[16:55] Gadigan: Axes are particularly good against Plants
[16:56] Gadigan: And there's anti-Plant subtrees
[16:56] Gadigan: Which themselves have resource-harvesting subtrees
[16:56] Gadigan: To obtain more wood/better wood
[16:56] Gadigan: Axe is also good against Animals, particularly wolves, particularly disguised wolves
[16:56] Gadigan: Pretty much entirely because of the Riding Hood connection
[16:56] Gadigan: Axe tilts towards Chaos, whereas Mace tilts towards Law
[16:57] Gadigan: Axe and Mace are basically opposed weapon types, synergize badly with each other by default
[16:57] Gadigan: (But can be forced to get along with the right linkups)
[16:57] Caelzeph: (Meanwhile, I expect Mace and Spray have some weird linkups)
[16:57] Gadigan: (Hah)
[16:57] Gadigan: Probably if you have wounding puns, yeah
[16:57] Caelzeph: I'll add that to The List
[16:58] Gadigan: Axes are good at criticals
[16:58] Gadigan: And at applying effects when they pull off critical hits
[16:58] Gadigan: Also wounded sub-effects that lop off limbs, disable parts of targets
[16:58] Kitsune106: like wounded maimed and other subtreees?
[16:58] Gadigan: Yes
[16:58] Gadigan: Axe synergizes with
[16:58] Gadigan: Warlord
[16:59] Gadigan: Humanoids, particularly leaders when they are backed by large numbers, are good at using Axes
[16:59] Gadigan: This applies both to the Orc/Ogre half
[16:59] Gadigan: And the Dwarf half
[16:59] Gadigan: Not really fully halves
[16:59] Gadigan: But
[16:59] Gadigan: Style groups of common Humanoid types
[16:59] Gadigan: Other stuff
[16:59] Gadigan: Chaos, I mentioned before
[16:59] Gadigan: Xaos Xomptroller works well with Axes
[17:00] Gadigan: Fury works well with Axes
[17:00] Gadigan: Slayer synergizes with Axes some even though they aren't improvised
[17:00] Gadigan: Questions on Axes?
[17:00] Gadigan: Mountain King helps a bit - dwarf association
[17:00] Gadigan: Kinetic Emperor too - Axes are more 'physical' than a lot of other weapons
[17:01] The Nottest of Daves: are there Non-Warrior spell classes that play particularly well with Axes?
[17:01] Gadigan: Though, interestingly, Maces are 'physical' too, even if they carry non-physical authority
[17:01] Gadigan: Hm
[17:01] Gadigan: None come to mind.
Is there a Shouts spell type?
[17:01] Gadigan: Because if there's one of those, it'd work with Berserker mode
[17:02] The Nottest of Daves: other than assumedly Anarchomancer, with the Chaos-connection
[17:02] Gadigan: I feel like if there isn't a Shouts type
[17:02] Gadigan: There should be
[17:02] Caelzeph: Bardic Music might have some subtree for it
[17:02] Caelzeph: Or Chant
[17:02] The Nottest of Daves: I don't believe there is, but yeah, Chant and Bard exist
[17:02] Gadigan: Anarchomancer, despite the Chaos connection, only synergizes minorly well with Axes - they're too not-casty for it
[17:02] The Nottest of Daves: interesting
[17:02] Gadigan: Mmmm, file Shout away as a potential Warrior spell type
[17:02] Gadigan: We need more of those
[17:03] Caelzeph: Chant would seem to be the most likely. Alternatively, and weirdly, Triple Magic
[17:03] The Nottest of Daves: FUS
[17:03] The Nottest of Daves: RO
[17:03] The Nottest of Daves: DAH
[17:03] Caelzeph: (Although it'd likely need a specific subtree for faster-casting shout-variety spells)
[17:05] The One True Pathaky: So Axes: Super-straightfoward, highly physical weapons
[17:06] Gadigan: Yes
[17:06] The One True Pathaky: Could conceptually surprise a more esoteric opponent if deployed correctly, but would struggle against full-gambit mage types
[17:06] The One True Pathaky: Is that an accurate assessment?
[17:06] Gadigan: Yeah

Bladecanes, the Umbrella Subtree, and a Digression on Narrative Manipulation through Classes wrote: [17:07] Gadigan: Bladecane
[17:07] Gadigan: Class Gentleman Assassin
[17:08] Gadigan: Class is just 'Gentleman' in the CYOA format
[17:08] Gadigan: Rogue weapon
[17:08] Gadigan: Sub-weapon of Trick Weapon in the other format
[17:08] Gadigan: Good at being hard-to-detect / being ignored
[17:08] Gadigan: You can carry bladecanes through weapon checks more easily than you should be able to - they just sort of fail on them, particularly with enough investment in the class
[17:09] Gadigan: Good at initial surprise strikes, damage plummets sharply over time
[17:09] Gadigan: Killing one target after another quickly stalls the falloff
[17:09] Gadigan: As long as they're significant enough
[17:09] Gadigan: But as soon as something starts stalling you
[17:09] Gadigan: Their offensive potential is shot
[17:09] Gadigan: After that point, they get a bit more duelist-y and more of a finesse weapon
[17:10] Gadigan: But are still worse at at that than standard lighter dueling swords
[17:10] Gadigan: Synergize with Swordsman heavily
[17:10] Gadigan: With Shadow Blade a moderate amount
[17:10] Gadigan: With Thief a moderate amount
[17:10] Gadigan: With Slayer heavily
[17:10] Gadigan: With Umbramancer a moderate amount
[17:10] Gadigan: With Assassin a moderate amount - but not in terms of techniques or special attacks - they just get a generic potency/lethality/stealth boost from investment in that
[17:11] Gadigan: Better with Clothes, workable with Light Armor, actively lose power if you've got Heavy/Grand/Power Armor
[17:11] The Nottest of Daves: What about Disguises?
[17:11] Gadigan: Synergize well with Disguises, yes, good call
[17:12] The One True Pathaky: I'd have thought they'd synergize with assassin more since they rely so much on the unexpected-alpha strike
[17:12] Gadigan: Work well with Poisons, but not Diseases - they lose power around filth, both if wielded by or against something filthy
[17:12] Gadigan: They require a degree of classiness to work optimally
[17:12] Gadigan: And they do help with the alpha strike
[17:12] Caelzeph: One of the Fancy Classes, alongside Teapot
[17:12] Gadigan: It's just
[17:12] Gadigan: The actual Assassin moves are thrown
[17:12] Gadigan: And bladecanes very much aren't
[17:13] Gadigan: Indeed fancy, yes
[17:13] Gadigan: Minor boosts from Nobility, Wealth, Commerce, Grandeur, etc
[17:13] Gadigan: Umbrellas are nested in it in the BA - those are more ranged, pretty much thanks to Penguin
[17:13] Gadigan: But those are a sub-tree
[17:13] Gadigan: And may be addressed seperately at some point
[17:15] The Nottest of Daves: Can we discuss the Umbrella subtree? Because that's what Enrica actually carries around
[17:15] Gadigan: Yes
[17:15] Gadigan: Umbrellas
[17:15] Gadigan: Actual weapon subtype in the CYOA version
[17:15] Gadigan: Class there is Investigator
[17:16] Gadigan: Good at a mix of magical, ranged, and melee
[17:16] Gadigan: You can cast from it like a wand
[17:16] Gadigan: Pop it open as a shield
[17:16] Gadigan: Actually very good at shielding things and serving as a focus to project AOE shields
[17:16] Gadigan: The melee is like a weaker version of the standard Bladecane
[17:16] Gadigan: Good at injecting a lethal poison or getting a single crit-hit in
[17:16] Gadigan: But can't carry a string of kills
[17:17] Gadigan: And isn't as damaging
[17:17] Gadigan: Ranged fires stuff from the umbrella
[17:17] Gadigan: Like the Penguin
[17:17] Gadigan: Also good at deploying tricks
[17:17] Gadigan: Project a cloud of fog
[17:17] Gadigan: Fly away on it
[17:17] Gadigan: Etc
[17:17] Gadigan: Helps with movement like that
[17:17] Gadigan: Pogo-umbrella is even possible
[17:17] The One True Pathaky: in fact, imperative
[17:17] Gadigan: Umbrella is also good at defending against
[17:17] Gadigan: Environmental attacks and AOEs
[17:17] Gadigan: Better than against other things
[17:18] Gadigan: Umbrella also has the ability to trip up opponents if flipped around
[17:18] Gadigan: And is good at shielding a wielder while they assess targets
[17:18] Gadigan: Passively synergizes with and boosts Divination
[17:19] Gadigan: The downside of it being able to do all this is that it basically focuses on one thing at a time
[17:19] Gadigan: As a 'mode'
[17:19] Gadigan: And it can switch modes
[17:19] Gadigan: But it's bad at re-switching to modes within the same encounter or encounter string
[17:19] Gadigan: So you can use it for investigation, but once you start fighting, investgation boosts are down
[17:19] Gadigan: Once you switch from melee, it's bad at returning to melee
[17:20] Gadigan: Once you exit shielding stuff, it's outright awkward to re-deploy as a shield again and enemies are better at getting around it
[17:20] Gadigan: Once you stop firing ranged tricks, it is more apt to run out of ammo or be bad at ranged things
[17:20] Gadigan: So it can do a lot - and it can do the things fairly well
[17:20] Gadigan: But it can't resume thing you were doing recently but then stopped with ease
[17:20] Kitsune106: so, not a one trick pony, but needs running start and can't return easily to what moved from?
[17:21] Gadigan: Yes, bit less so on the running start (though that's a bit of a thing), but very much so on the other parts
[17:22] Gadigan: Notably, that can be overcome, not with normal stuff
[17:22] Gadigan: But with plot/narrative/story manipulation abilities
[17:22] Gadigan: You can unwrite that restriction using that sort of thing
[17:22] Gadigan: Gets jankier the more you do it in a single story, though - anti-momentum there
[17:23] Gadigan: Though doing it successfully across different stories
[17:23] Gadigan: Carries positive momentum still
[17:23] Gadigan: Like normal
[17:23] Kitsune106: it encourages sticking to a single thing, or using successive.. suprrises
[17:23] Gadigan: Yes
[17:23] Kitsune106: like each use/mode is a surprise gadget/trick that once you go back too, is known and anticipated to be countered
[17:23] Gadigan: Correct
[17:24] Gadigan: Trick Weapons in general have a weakness to Divination
[17:24] Gadigan: Umbrella actually has the least out of the bunch
[17:24] Gadigan: Because of its detective synergy
[17:24] Gadigan: So even if they scan you and know it's a multi-function umbrella, it still retains use until used.
[17:25] Gadigan: The bladecane less so - it can have lethality shut off by a good scan (though it actively resists scan attempts to pick up its presence, so it's a rough hurdle)
[17:28] The Nottest of Daves: 1. What classes do story-manipulating abilities tend to live in? Glory seems likely, but also seems like the opposite angle from where you want to approach it from, since that would make you and your tricks more well known, rather than less...
[17:28] The Nottest of Daves: 2. Do the class synergies for Umbrellas differ from that of standard bladecanes?
[17:29] Caelzeph: It's very helpful to have the light-on-details classes fleshed out, so yes, I'm enjoying it!
[17:29] The Nottest of Daves: 3. What spell classes synergize well with Bladecanes? Which with Umbrellas specifically?(edited)
[17:41] Caelzeph: (If requests are possibly, I'd like to hear more about Souls and Teapots later)
19:34] Gadigan: Back for a brief bit. Probably not getting too into answering things during the short period pre-dinner, but I see the questions and intend to answer them at some point.
[19:39] Gadigan: Story manipulation doesn't strongly live in any outlined classes too much. There's sub-trees in the Book, Conceptual, Fate, and Dream classes, but none of them do it natively. Maybe more will come to mind as I go through things. That theoretical Quill weapon might work well with it.
[19:40] Gadigan: It's a hard thing to get - around T3 in difficulty, but without the inherent oomph if not living in a T3 class
[19:40] Gadigan: Still powerful in the right circumstances, though
[19:40] Gadigan: Umbrellas synergize a lot better with Shield
[19:40] Gadigan: Geomancy too
[19:40] The One True Pathaky: Stage, maybe?
[19:40] Gadigan: Regular Bladecanes don't synergize with those, but Umbrellas do
[19:40] Gadigan: Ah, yeah, Stage would have some
[19:41] The Nottest of Daves: What about Mystery?
[19:41] Gadigan: Spell classes for Bladecane - Thief Arts, Umbramancer
[19:41] Gadigan: Umbrellas - Those two, but to a lesser degree, plus Geomancer and Diviner
[19:41] The One True Pathaky: Whimsy for making things more kiddish?
[19:41] Gadigan: Sub-spec of Diviner, though - the Detective one
[19:42] The One True Pathaky: Sorry, keep thinking about classes with Story-power
[19:42] Gadigan: Mystery would have some on worlds that are already story-based, but otherwise blurs reality in different ways
Whimsy would require something else alongside it. If you already had story-manipulation, it could tilt it.
[19:42] Gadigan: Heading back off, will return again, hopefully for more of this
[19:48] Caelzeph: Quill is definitely a thing I want to actually develop, especially as Cael has a Quill weapon
[19:48] Caelzeph: (Another possibility for story-manipulation: Clipboard, although that's more because it has reality-alteration as a purview)
[21:37] Gadigan: Back
[21:37] Gadigan: Yes - Clipboard falls into the category of able to do it with a supporting skillset or on a heavily narrative world, but not on its own without the proper setting

Books, with a Digression on Libram Magic, and a Discussion of the Wizard Group of Spell Classes wrote: [22:21] Gadigan: Book
[22:21] Gadigan: Class is Scholar
[22:21] Gadigan: It's a Wizard weapon
[22:21] Gadigan: Sits as a sub-weapon of 'Focus' on the CYOA version
[22:21] Gadigan: But there isn't a Focus weapon subtype on the BA at the moment
[22:21] Gadigan: It's a class that serves a few roles
[22:22] Gadigan: One is that it holds the majority of the general 'knowledge' abilities that aren't related to a specific subtype of entity or specific class field
[22:22] Gadigan: So knowledge about history, about metaphysics, about general trends across multiple spell classes, etc
[22:22] Gadigan: They're all bundled in Scholar
[22:22] Gadigan: It boosts Mind a lot
[22:22] Gadigan: But primarily attacks with SPI
[22:22] Gadigan: It is built to synergize well with spells in general
[22:22] Gadigan: Wizard Magic the most
[22:22] Gadigan: And other spell groups considered 'Wizardly'
[22:22] The One True Pathaky: "Understands the Causes of World War I" would be a Scholar ability
[22:22] Gadigan: But really magic as a whole
[22:23] Gadigan: Haha, yes, correct
[22:23] Gadigan: So Mind is the most-boosted stat, with Spirit second, but Spirit is the most-used, with Mind second
[22:23] The One True Pathaky: Forbidden Magic work well with it, I'd imagine?
[22:23] Gadigan: Boosts MP more than almost any other weapon type - that's one of its biggest trends among the base weapon subtypes
[22:23] Gadigan: Correct, Forbidden Magic does synergize very well with books
[22:24] Gadigan: Scholar also boosts Tome accessories
[22:24] Gadigan: Books can hold specific spells
[22:24] Gadigan: Which Scholar then boosts
[22:24] Gadigan: Or add spell slots
[22:24] Gadigan: Which Scholar also does
[22:24] Gadigan: Or come with the ability to spend an action to activate an effect
[22:24] Gadigan: And those sorts of effects, in RP, would generally count as spells and be boosted by the most-appropriate spell class on top of scholar
[22:25] Gadigan: The tradeoff for this is that the books don't have a particularly strong attack or defense profile on their own
[22:25] Gadigan: They're reliant on casting each turn to stay up to par in combat
[22:25] Gadigan: Otherwise you're in a more support role
[22:25] Gadigan: They pair well with one-handed staffs or wands
[22:26] Gadigan: And can assist with scans - including indirect scans - by acting as reference material
[22:26] Gadigan: If their theme matches the theme of spells cast (or one of the two is generic enough) you're good
[22:26] Gadigan: If you have one generic, the other can then be swayed to its theme
[22:26] Gadigan: If they're off theme - a book bound in flesh with decorations of bone trying to cast celestial light rays, for instance
[22:26] Gadigan: That gets penalized
[22:27] Gadigan: Books involve linguistics more than other spell-based weapon types, so silence hits harder for a book-wielder than it would a wand or staff wielder
[22:28] Gadigan: On the flip side, books can mix with Seer (the Robe class) to passively 'predict' ways to make the wearer seem less of a threat until they unleash something big/obvious, so a Robe-wearing Book-wielder in the back row can play support or do charged-up actions and attract a bit less aggro - it isn't a strong effect or one of the main things in the class, but it is a minor synergy that could provide the little nudge needed in a pinch
[22:29] Gadigan: Books, when defending, are better at defending against magic - it's possible to 'snatch it up' within the book sometimes
[22:29] Gadigan: On the flip side, they're pretty terrible at defending against melee, ranged, or high-tech stuff most of the time
[22:30] Gadigan: Synergy with Knowledge the most out of elements
[22:30] Gadigan: Magic too, though
[22:30] Gadigan: But Books can exist on not-highly-magical worlds and be themed to work as reference guides to technology and be used for casting hypertech or biomancy or something
[22:30] Gadigan: Questions on Books?
[22:31] The Nottest of Daves: A bit of an indirect question
[22:31] The Nottest of Daves: But what other spell classes fall under the "Wizardly" category?
[22:35] Gadigan: (Working on a response)
[22:35] The Nottest of Daves: (no worries, I wasn't expecting a short answer to such a broad question)
22:38] Gadigan: Particualrly: Abjuration, Divining, Enchantment, Gate Magic, Geomancy, Illusion Magic, Necromancy, Summoner Magic, Transmutation, Wizard Magic
But Also: Arcanist Magic, Artifice, Astral Magic, Force Magic, Golomancy
Semi-Priestly: Celestial Magic, Chaos Magic, Dark Magic, Demon Magic, Elemental Magic, Forbidden Magic, Ritual Magic
Special Cases: Channeling, Divining, Ethereal Magic, Shadow Magic, Technomancy
[22:38] Gadigan: So the first group is the core wizard stuff
[22:39] Gadigan: It's the D&D spell schools, with Conjuration split into Gate Magic and Summoner Magic, and with Geomancy added
[22:39] Gadigan: Arcanist Magic, Artifice, Astral Magic, Force Magic, and Golomancy are all solidly arcane
[22:39] Gadigan: Note that this is just the base ones right now
[22:40] Gadigan: The next line deals with planar entities - as such, those actually (for the most part - 1 sec on Ritual) get nested under 'Priest' instead of Wizard
[22:40] Gadigan: But they're varying degrees of 'also wizard'
[22:40] Gadigan: And don't tend to require worship for their core paths
[22:40] Gadigan: So Celestial tilts heavily priest, but also allows Wizards
[22:40] Gadigan: Chaos, Elemental, and Forbidden tilt more Wizard, even if grouped under Priest
[22:40] Gadigan: Elemental also ties with Mentalist and Monk
[22:41] Gadigan: It's pretty broad and unique
[22:41] Gadigan: In that it is the base for accessing a lot of stuff
[22:41] Gadigan: And is arcane in a lot of its practice
[22:41] Gadigan: But involves the invocation of nearby things
[22:41] Gadigan: But in a 'request' manner by default, with worship and command as alternatives
[22:41] Gadigan: But towards local elemental forces in general, rather than a specific, targeted force
[22:42] Gadigan: Dark Magic can be spun equally arcane or divine, but is generally one of the two at a time
[22:42] Gadigan: Demon Magic (and Rune and Glyph) would be equally arcane and divine, but ride the line and tend to count as both simultaneously
[22:42] Gadigan: Even if Demon and Rune are opposed to what would traditionally be considered divine forces
[22:42] Gadigan: Ritual Magic I'm waffling on grouping under Wizard or Priest
[22:42] Gadigan: But either way
[22:43] Gadigan: It can be spun in the other direction by those invested in it
[22:43] Gadigan: Sort of like Dark Magic
[22:43] Gadigan: But with individual spells
[22:43] Gadigan: Having their own kind of tilt
[22:43] Gadigan: Some are arcane rituals
[22:43] Gadigan: Some are divine rituals
[22:43] Gadigan: But either can be forced the other way most of the time by someone invested enough
[22:43] Gadigan: Then we have the weird bits
[22:43] Gadigan: Divining is core Wizard
[22:43] Gadigan: But there's sub-branches that aren't wizard at all
[22:43] Gadigan: Like Detective
[22:44] Gadigan: I've considered making some alt classes
[22:44] Gadigan: So people don't all have to invest in Diviner
[22:44] Gadigan: Because as things stand
[22:44] Gadigan: It's basically required for any good build
[22:44] Gadigan: I think it's probably going to stay Diviner on the BA
[22:44] Gadigan: But the CYOA version is likely getting spin-offs of it for at least some of the Mentalist, Monk, Priest, Rogue, Scientist, and Warrior archetypes
[22:45] Gadigan: Shadow Magic is like the semi-divine group
[22:45] Gadigan: But is semi-Rogue instead
[22:45] Gadigan: It lives inside the Rogue casting group rather than the Wizard group
[22:45] Gadigan: But is about equal parts both
[22:45] Gadigan: Technomancy ditto
[22:45] Gadigan: But with Scientist instead of Rogue
[22:45] Gadigan: Gah
[22:45] Gadigan: Need to add Scientist
[22:45] Gadigan: To that Diviner line above
[22:46] Gadigan: Edited
[22:46] Gadigan: Those are what I'm considering the core theme archetypes that people can be one or multiple of - Mentalist, Monk, Priest, Rogue, Scientist, Warrior, and Wizard
[22:46] Gadigan: Though there are some oddballs who aren't any
[22:46] Gadigan: That leaves Channeling and Ethereal
[22:46] Gadigan: Channeling is grouped under Mentalist in the CYOA
[22:46] Gadigan: It's kinda its own thing in the BA
[22:47] Gadigan: It works as a basis of so much stuff
[22:47] Gadigan: That it works basically everywhere
[22:47] Gadigan: You can approach it from almost any thematic avenue
[22:47] Gadigan: And apply it to most any build
[22:47] Gadigan: In different ways
[22:47] Gadigan: So it gets full boost from the Book
[22:47] Gadigan: But also works as other things
[22:47] Gadigan: And doesn't get shut down by standard antimagic
[22:47] Gadigan: And Ethereal
[22:47] Gadigan: Is Arcane
[22:47] Gadigan: Is under Wizard
[22:48] Gadigan: But is specced in getting around boundaries and restrictions
[22:48] Gadigan: So it ignores almost all standard antimagic
[22:48] The One True Pathaky: Channeler feels like the foundational "interact with the metaphysical universe" class
[22:48] Gadigan: Even though it totally is magic
[22:48] Gadigan: Correct, it is
[22:48] The One True Pathaky: Also "sharing is caring"
[22:48] Gadigan: It handles the linking of things to other things
[22:48] Gadigan: Separation of things
[22:48] Gadigan: Transfer of things
[22:48] Gadigan: It handles manipulation of raw mana
[22:48] Gadigan: Which includes XP, Gold, ambient mana, and entity spawning
[22:49] Gadigan: It also serves to link other classes together
[22:49] Gadigan: And to better facilitate the use of gear
[22:49] Gadigan: Also handles some environmental stuff by manipulating ley-lines, channeling the land's power, etc
[22:49] Gadigan: Although Geomancy does those last bits better
[22:51] Gadigan: Nonbase gets a bit iffier since I haven't thought through it as much
[22:51] Gadigan: Binder Magic is somewhat arcane, might go a bit divine too
[22:51] Gadigan: Blood Magic same boat, more arcane than divine, but bits of divine in there
[22:51] Gadigan: Contract Magic ditto blending
[22:51] Gadigan: Chant is a mix of Arcane, Divine, and Rogue
[22:52] Gadigan: Chronomancy is arcane - it'd work well with Book
[22:52] Gadigan: Dragon Magic is arcane, but doesn't use books as much (though it still works together some)
[22:52] Gadigan: Glyph and Rune as per notes above
[22:52] Gadigan: Litigamancy - not sure where I want to settle it category wise, but it involves enough paper that Books work well with it regardless
[22:53] Gadigan: Parallel Magic is arcane and similar to ritual, but with a more arcane tilt
[22:53] The Nottest of Daves: (GET THE BOOK OF GRUDGES)
[22:53] Gadigan: Spatial Magic would be arcane and work with Books
[22:53] Gadigan: (Haha)
[22:54] Gadigan: War Magic is arcane, but actually tends to be bad with books unless you get specific powers to rectify that
[22:54] Gadigan: Ancient Magic is arcane and works very well with Books
[22:54] Gadigan: Catastrophe Magic is mostly arcane, a bit divine, works with books
[22:54] Gadigan: Contingency Magic is arcane and works well with books
[22:54] Gadigan: Elder Magic is arcane and works with books
[22:55] Gadigan: Libram Magic outright requires books. It is extremely synergized with Scholar to the point where it'd be basically pointless without it
[22:55] Gadigan: Law of Tyranny isn't really arcane, but can use books
[22:55] Gadigan: Pan-Cosmic Haberdashery is arcane-ish, but would require books specifically for it to benefit from them, really
[22:55] Gadigan: That's the spell list
[22:55] Gadigan: Further questions building off of that (or in general?)
[22:57] The Nottest of Daves: I have some more questions about the archetypes in general, but I assume you want to keep it a little more focused on Books (or at least on Weapons)
[22:58] The Nottest of Daves: Aha
[22:58] The Nottest of Daves: I would appreciate a flavor-blurb on a couple of books, so we have a better idea of what sorts of things they work well with and what things they cause penalties on
[22:59] The Nottest of Daves: like the book bound in bone and human skin above
[22:59] The Nottest of Daves: Book 1. Text of Al Azif- (Weapon, Book, Darkness & Mystic, 85,000,000 Gold) +85,000 Magical Attack, +85,000 MIN, +85,000 SPI, +425,000 MP as a non-stacking bonus, Forbidden Magic spells cost wielder 850,000 less MP to cast, 5% inflicts Insanity, 20% Darkspawn Resistance
[23:01] The Nottest of Daves: (Being one of the few books that are obtainable as an enemy drop)
[23:01] Gadigan: That's the Necromicon. Pretty much literally.
[23:01] Gadigan: It's Forbidden Magic
[23:02] The Nottest of Daves: All Forbidden Magic, All The Time?
[23:02] The Nottest of Daves: Or does it play well with a few other things
[23:02] Gadigan: It works fine with other types of magic that don't conflict with Darkspawn. There's no problem with casting Necromancy or Wizard Magic, or Transmutation, or plenty of other stuff through it
[23:02] Gadigan: Celestial Magic is a no-go
[23:02] Gadigan: Enchantment is generally good, but beneficial enchantment might be weakened
[23:03] Gadigan: Mind control would have insanity as a side effect
[23:03] Gadigan: Summons would have a tendency to veer Cthuloid if random
[23:03] Gadigan: Summons and Transmutations could mutate in tentacly manners, but that wouldn't be a guarantee and would be easy to suppress
[23:04] Gadigan: Geomancy to unknowable ancient cities, deep seas (and ruins therein), caverns, dark woods, swamps would be boosted
[23:04] Gadigan: Geomancy to sunny, chill places would be reduced
[23:04] Gadigan: Those sorts of things
[23:04] Gadigan: Does that help?
[23:04] The Nottest of Daves: Indeed
[23:04] Gadigan: Excellent
[23:05] The Nottest of Daves: Taking a look at the shop for a few other samples
[23:05] Gadigan: Sure
[23:05] The Nottest of Daves: %Planetary of Knowledge's Tome- (Weapon, Book, Knowledge & Magic, 190,000,000 Gold) +190,000 Magical Attack, +1,900,000 MP as a non-stacking bonus, +190,000 MIN, +190,000 SPI, 160% Critical, 260% To Hit, Wielder's allies gain +8,000 MIN and SPI as a non-stacking bonus, Wielder must be Level 40 or greater
[23:06] The Nottest of Daves: That one's a combo off of another Planetary drop, so also relatively likely for people to randomly have/be able to make
[23:08] Gadigan: That one, thanks to the 'Knowledge' part is pretty broad. The 'Planetary' part makes it work better with divine stuff. Boost to things that would impart knowledge or boost mental things, boost to divination. Would apply Book to Divine Magic, Healer Magic, etc. It'd take a minor hit on casting demon magic, dark magic, etc, unless the wielder was an evil (or dark-thematic'd non-evil) deity or worshipped such a being.
[23:08] Gadigan: After which point it'd actually help with the that-deity-appropriate ones
[23:09] The Nottest of Daves: Now you've got me wondering what Dulcinea's themes are for such deity purposes
[23:09] The Nottest of Daves: XD
[23:11] Gadigan: Haha
[23:11] Gadigan: Going to make a call that Necromancy works on that book unless the wielder's deity directly opposes it
[23:12] Gadigan: They're up to you, but probably are similar to her build
[23:12] Gadigan: Mad science, nightmares, stars, hope to an extent
[23:12] Gadigan: Using darkness for positive purposes
[23:13] The Nottest of Daves: Thanks!
[23:14] Gadigan: np
[23:14] The Nottest of Daves: Looking over the rest of the Book list, it's pretty much things either only one person has, or require fairly arcane (possibly non-repeatable) combos to make
[23:14] The Nottest of Daves: so does anyone else have specific book questions?
[23:55] Draconics: but what about Libram Magic?
[23:55] Gadigan: Mentioned with Tomes above, but we can cover it specifically at some point if desired
[23:55] Gadigan: Books, I mean
[23:56] Gadigan: It pretty much requires a Book to run
[23:56] Gadigan: But naturally synergizes to them to the point where you're basically using all abilities from both classes when casting it
[23:56] Gadigan: Unified Knowledge possible there
[23:56] Gadigan: You have specific questions about it?

How Exactly Do Theme Groupings Affect Casting Power, All Other Things Being Equal? wrote: [23:16] Gadigan: If you want to ask general questions about the theme groupings, I'm up for fielding a couple, but probably don't want to stray too far afield from the weapon effort
[23:16] Gadigan: I'll note that they apply in more force to NPCs and minor, non-cosmipolitan world settings than to PCs
[23:17] Gadigan: BA members are good at synergizing disparate skill sets(edited)
[23:17] The Nottest of Daves: Disparate?
[23:17] Gadigan: Gah, yes, saw a red line under what I typed and clicked to fix it without looking at the fix
[23:17] Gadigan: Thank you
[23:18] Gadigan: But there are inherent synergies between things in the same theme group
[23:18] Gadigan: Since they're more-typically found together and used by the same sorts of entities
[23:18] Gadigan: Some are more solidly in one group, others are floating at the periphery near another group
[23:20] The Nottest of Daves: I suppose I'm wondering how much those synergies boost a BA member vs a more typical NPC
[23:21] The Nottest of Daves: Say there's a BA member with Druid and Apprentice Priest vs Druid and Priest, vs Druid and Adept Priest, using their Druid-powers in a contest against an NPC Druid
[23:22] The Nottest of Daves: is one of those BA members going to be notably better than the others at Druiding in comparison to the other BA members, or in comparison to NPC Druid?
[23:25] Gadigan: That'd depend on what else they had.

The Priest offers benefit to the Druid. The benefit offered is moderate in that case (as opposed to major direct synergies / highly-themed items / etc or on the flip side a minor boost).

Apprentice Priest doesn't offer a ton. Basic and Apprentice don't really get deep enough into a class to synergize well. Classname is pretty much the requirement there. Adept helps more, Expert even more than Adept - Expert is the level at which abstandard synergies start hitting more, but this is more standard than abstandard.
[23:25] Gadigan: Continuing off of that
[23:25] Gadigan: It depends on what else they have.

Personal thematics? Personal RP power tilt? Gear equipped? Other abilities?
[23:25] Gadigan: Level also matters
[23:26] Gadigan: Particularly compared to the NPC, since the NPC's overall skill rank in the class is more likely to be tied to their Level than a PC's would be
[23:26] The Nottest of Daves: Assuming Naked and all the same level
[23:26] The Nottest of Daves: 39, if we need one
[23:29] Gadigan: Druid and Apprentice Priest is worse than Druid and Priest, who is worse than Druid and Adept Priest. The gap between the latter two is a bit bigger than between the first two, but the one with the higher Priest, assuming everything else the same, would be better at Druid'ing.

At 39, the first one would be worse than the NPC, the second would be a bit worse, and the third a bit better, assuming some bog-standard NPC using current commonality distribution of Druid skill tiers.

It's easily offset by gear or other powers or personal theme, though.
[23:30] The Nottest of Daves: Thanks!

Fists, with a Digression on the *Dryse Claw (Configuration Two) wrote: [23:35] Gadigan: Fists
[23:35] Gadigan: Combatant as class
[23:36] Gadigan: Good at close combat melee
[23:36] Gadigan: Fights with both agility and strength - moreso strength for attack, agility boosting passively hitting/dodging
[23:36] Gadigan: Mobile combat
[23:36] Gadigan: Synergizes well with Martial Arts
[23:36] Gadigan: Synergizes well with Monk
[23:37] Gadigan: Good at chain-combo melee fighting, like a fighting game
[23:37] Gadigan: Not as much as Yoyo, but that's Yoyo's thing
[23:37] Gadigan: Good at making things count as unarmed even when not
[23:37] Gadigan: Synergizes well with Ki
[23:37] Gadigan: Good at bringing personal subtype-based hits into the fray
[23:37] Gadigan: Like a ghoul or lich with an undead touch
[23:37] Gadigan: Or a beast-person with sharp claws
[23:38] Gadigan: Or something like that
[23:38] Gadigan: Light focus in multi-hit for melee
[23:38] Gadigan: Dryse Claw specifically is connected to Cetmyl Dryse, though. It's a whole lot more element-mad-science-superweapon-y than standard things in the category
[23:40] The Nottest of Daves: I was looking through some random pictures I had saved, and this prompted an 'I wonder if the Dryse Claw looks something like this?'
<image redacted>
[23:41] The Nottest of Daves: (Inspiration for this piece is the Technic League)
[23:41] Gadigan: Yes, that's actually a really good visual reference for it - talons can go weirder with different elemental energies (and longer if desired), and it can switch between sleeker and more-robotic, but yes, that's pretty much exactly the visual avenue it lies down
[23:42] The Nottest of Daves: Oooh, fancy elemental talons
[23:43] The Nottest of Daves: I am getting more excited
[23:44] The Nottest of Daves: Does it have notable differences in synergies? I assume nonbase elements in general are much more influential than with standard Fist weapons
[23:45] The Nottest of Daves: er
[23:45] The Nottest of Daves: also
[23:45] The Nottest of Daves: is that the standard timeline Dryse Claw
[23:45] The Nottest of Daves: (because I have *Dryse Claw (Configuration Two)- (Weapon, Fist Weapon, Formus & Progress, 300,000,000 Gold) +300,000 Melee Attack, +300,000 to all stats, Wielder gains +25,000 to all stats as an uncapped bonus for each Theoretical Element, Imaginary Element, or Tier-0 Element that wielder possesses (to a max of 2,000 such elements), Wielder gains Electricity Immunity against sources of equal or lower Level that are below Level 99 if wielder possesses no other elemental Immunities and is a devout worshipper of both 'Benhannis Techylmann' and 'Cetmyl Dryse', Wielder must be Level 40 or greater and must possess the ability 'Elemental Researcher' or 'Infinity Designer')
[23:47] Gadigan: It has far more synergy potential than regular fist weapons. It's an Elemental Researcher Mad Scientist weapon.

That's from a different timeline where instead of kidnapping Techyllman (and allying with Iepterro), Dryse worked with him for some purpose.

That one has tons of Electricity synergy.
[23:48] The Nottest of Daves: Aha
[23:48] The Nottest of Daves: So Electricity+Elemental Researcher fun
[23:48] Gadigan: Yes
[23:49] The Nottest of Daves: I assume the Mad Science means it also plays relatively well with Scientist-grouping classes
[23:49] Gadigan: Yes
[23:50] The Nottest of Daves: What about Technomancy? Close Enough, or Too Wizardy?
[23:52] Gadigan: Close enough. Works with Dryse stuff - she specifically is good at merging skill sets with esoteric concept stuff and technology, but also uses magic
[23:52] The Nottest of Daves: Oh man
[23:52] The Nottest of Daves: I'm beginning to feel like I managed to get the perfect weapon for Dulcinea XD
[23:54] Gadigan: Yeah, it actually works really well with her overall character-intent

Souls, with a Digression on Drain Mechanics wrote: [23:54] Gadigan: Souls
[23:54] Gadigan: Enslaver class
[23:54] Gadigan: May circle back to these
[23:54] Gadigan: Tomorrow when more people are around
[23:54] Gadigan: Combatant and Book too possibly
[23:54] Gadigan: Though Book was pretty well covered
[23:55] Gadigan: Subweapon of Force in the CYOA thing
[23:55] Gadigan: Force is a Mentalist weapon, Soul is a Mentalist-Priest weapon
[23:55] Gadigan: But Priest in the lower planar sense
[23:56] Gadigan: On Souls - good at evoking a specific other creature's powers
[23:56] Gadigan: Good at handling drain
[23:57] Gadigan: One of the weapon types that by default has the most 'evil' tilt out of base things
[23:57] Gadigan: (With Enslavers being able to rip out spirit essence from things to add to their weapons, prevent resurrection, gain powers from the killed, power up Dark/Demon magic, etc)
[23:57] Gadigan: But there's a small sliver inside the class where you could use the souls of ancient heroes to fight or something that could go non-evil
[23:58] Gadigan: Spirit focused
[23:58] Gadigan: Whereas Forces are for all stats
[23:58] Gadigan: Magic focused
[23:58] Gadigan: Wheras Forces are all three attack types
[23:58] Gadigan: Soul synergizes very well with Demon Magic, Dark Magic
[23:58] Gadigan: Some with Necromancy
[23:58] Gadigan: Very well with Demons, Devils, Daemons
[23:58] Gadigan: Some with Rune Magic
[23:58] Gadigan: Extremely well with Pactmaker, lets you shuffle some penalties off from using that
[23:58] Gadigan: Good at Hexed
[23:59] Gadigan: Other negative status effects and debuffs too to a degree
[23:59] Gadigan: But Hexed the most out of the pile
[23:59] Gadigan: Stat Drain probably second
[23:59] Gadigan: Souls are hungry, in that they drain things
[23:59] Gadigan: But also distant from the wielder
[23:59] Gadigan: There's a clear distinction between the enslaver and the enslaved souls
[23:59] Gadigan: Which means less backlash from drain attacks than with some other weapons
[00:00] Gadigan: Assuming you hold it in the weapon and don't fully drain to the wielder
[00:00] Gadigan: They're almost like livers in a sense - they can handle 'processing' contaminants to an extent, but if they go kaput, everything starts flowing through to you while they're down in terms of providing attacks and benefits
[00:00] Gadigan: Slightly weird comparison, but it came to mind as was applicable
[00:00] Gadigan: Good at replicating enemy actions
[00:00] Gadigan: Synergizes with summoner
[00:01] Gadigan: Can be used as a base for summons
[00:01] Gadigan: Also synergy with channeler
[00:01] Gadigan: Can count attacks as coming from a whatever-the-soul-is-from - so you can count as attacking as a Dragon without being a Dragon yourself
[00:01] Gadigan: Synergy with lower-planar pet classes the most
[00:02] Gadigan: But almost all pet classes to a degree
[00:02] Gadigan: Constructs the least
[00:02] Gadigan: Out of the standard stuff, at least
[00:02] Gadigan: Handle casting types of things that work with the soul types - using them as origin points for the effect for a bit of indirect casting
[00:02] Gadigan: That really depends on what you're wielding (or having specific abilities), though
[00:02] Gadigan: Questions?
[00:03] The Nottest of Daves: My attention got caught by the existence of Drain Backlash
[00:04] The Nottest of Daves: does that trigger on any particular kind of drain, or just in general?
[00:04] The Nottest of Daves: Also, is that a function of drain in and of itself, or more of drain-reacting abilities on the enemy?
[00:08] Gadigan: Drain backlash is dependent on the target of the drain - it isn't an inherent feature of drain itself
[00:08] Gadigan: If you're draining something with essence hostile to you
[00:08] Gadigan: It can hurt you
[00:08] Gadigan: Some things are specifically anti-drain
[00:09] Gadigan: Like porcupines of the soul
[00:09] Gadigan: Others have poison blood
[00:09] Gadigan: So blood drinking fangs would have backlash
[00:09] Gadigan: Or a demon draining a celestial without proper focus to process it
[00:09] Gadigan: The holy light essence would burn it from the inside
[00:09] Gadigan: Something made of living curses would likely curse whatever swallowed its power
[00:09] Gadigan: But having a soul as a weapon could store the curses in the soul, rather than pulling them to the wielder
[00:10] Gadigan: Normal people draining normal things that aren't opposed to them in theme isn't particularly dangerous
[00:10] The Nottest of Daves: Are there subtypes that don't have any opposing types for drain purposes?
[00:11] The Nottest of Daves: (other than specific Anti-drain and things like that)
[00:15] Gadigan: Most planar things have problems with their opposite alignment counterparts unless specced in hunting those down.
Most living things have problems draining from Undead.
Most Undead have problems draining from particularly 'shiny' stuff like Solar Beings or Celestials.
Most other Constructs don't drain.
[00:15] Gadigan: Considering
[00:16] Gadigan: Mindshadow, Ooze don't really have specifically-opposing groups.
Mindshadows would have trouble draining from mindless things, but wouldn't get backlashed - they'd just get stopped from doing it.
Most oozes have problems with highly-salt-based things of similar Level or specific chemicals, but not subtypes.
[00:16] Gadigan: Time Devourers can drain basically anything. It's one of their things, and they're T3. Elder Geists too.
Abhorrent Demons and Serpent Blessed to a lesser extent.
[00:16] Gadigan: Looking more
[00:17] Gadigan: Drain-focused Outsiders don't as a group have something opposed, thought individual ones might. Eidolons are in the same pile.
[00:17] Gadigan: I think that covers things pretty well
[00:18] Gadigan: Vastness and World Eater are hard to anti-drain too

Spears wrote: [15:09] Gadigan: Spear
[15:09] Gadigan: Class Lancer on the BA
[15:09] Gadigan: Class Spearman in the CYOA
[15:10] Gadigan: Subweapon of Polearm in the CYOA version
[15:10] Gadigan: On the BA, this weapon type encompasses both spears and lances
[15:10] Gadigan: The CYOA split lances off, but we may get to those later
[15:10] Gadigan: Matters less here since they're in it on the BA
[15:10] Gadigan: It's good at rushing forward and punching through things
[15:10] Gadigan: Whether it's piercing through defense with the weapon's point
[15:11] Gadigan: Or breaking through a defensive line to hit something in the back with reach
[15:11] Gadigan: At the same time
[15:11] Gadigan: It's good at being set in place
[15:11] Gadigan: And defending against things from a set position
[15:11] Gadigan: Allowing a bit of the enemy's offensive momentum (but not so much success momentum) to be turned against them
[15:11] Gadigan: It synergizes well with Steeds
[15:12] Gadigan: It also synergizes well with Polearms even more than normal weapon/subweapon paired things do
[15:12] Gadigan: Defense mode has a few quirks
[15:12] Gadigan: The momentum-turn is better against big things
[15:12] Gadigan: But warding things off longer term is better against things with worse reach
[15:13] Gadigan: So you can't both be inverting momentum and doing a sustained hold-off well
[15:13] Gadigan: You either get one good counter-hit in
[15:13] Gadigan: Or you're not really damaging that much but holding back
[15:13] Gadigan: Having said those things
[15:13] Gadigan: It's not actually a defensive weapon type for the most part
[15:13] Gadigan: It's good against melee attackers
[15:13] Gadigan: But
[15:13] Gadigan: It has little defense against ranged and magic
[15:13] Gadigan: You can try deflect-stuff weapon spinning, which is enhanced by having investment in Staff
[15:14] Gadigan: But that's not its focus unless you're really invested in some sub-tree that does that
[15:14] Gadigan: Questions about Spears?
[15:16] Kitsune106: None that spring to mind
[15:17] Gadigan: Okay
[21:21] Gadigan: Spear was a Warrior weapon
[21:21] Gadigan: Probably clear that it was
[21:21] Gadigan: But just in case
[21:21] Gadigan: Didn't hit all the sub-trees of any of the things I'm describing
[21:21] Gadigan: But something to build from is better than less (I was about to say nothing, but there's raw basics there already)

Shields, with a Digression on Cannon-Shields (and Landhawks!) wrote: [15:17] Gadigan: Shield
[15:17] Gadigan: Class is Defender
[15:17] Gadigan: It's the least-offensive of the base weapon subtypes
[15:17] Gadigan: It is built to add to Defense first and foremost
[15:18] Gadigan: It can still be used to attack via shield-bash, though
[15:18] Gadigan: There's some semi-unique opportunities there
[15:18] Gadigan: In that it can attack with CON instead of STR (or a mix of the two) more easily than most things
[15:18] Gadigan: Forces excluded
[15:18] Gadigan: But it's still not offensively focused
[15:18] Gadigan: Good at blocking effects
[15:18] Caelzeph: (Throwing my hat in for Orb- is it really just throwing it at people as opposed to channeling blasts from?- and Clipboard, because I don't have the best handle on reality-warping)
[15:18] Gadigan: Good at helping guard others
[15:18] Gadigan: Good as a one-handed thing to compliment another weapon
[15:19] Gadigan: Double-shield is basically a declaration of being an armadillo-build that is super-defense-focused
[15:19] Gadigan: Inflicts Fatigued: Stun more easily than most other status effects - otherwise isn't generally too big on negative effects or debuffs
[15:20] Gadigan: Questions on Shield?
[15:22] Kitsune106: What about cannon shields?
[15:22] Gadigan: Those add ranged to the mix
[15:22] Gadigan: And double down on the stun
[15:23] Gadigan: They're still not as offensive as a straight-up gun in terms of sustained fire
[15:23] Gadigan: But if used sparingly, can bring a 'big' attack from an unexpected direction
[15:23] Gadigan: Particularly if backed by Gun investment and spells/techniques
[15:23] Gadigan: Since the 'cannon' part implies a generally slowness, but high amount of damage
[15:24] Gadigan: Not a fast or agile weapon option (and one that can get ranged to theoretically work off CON - tricky, but possibly worth it if you're speccing in it), but one that can pack intermittant punch
[15:24] Gadigan: Best paired with another weapon in the other hand, usually
[15:24] Gadigan: Though double cannon shields
[15:24] Gadigan: On a Machine
[15:25] Gadigan: Could make a literal tank, which would work better than double-cannon-shields on most other things
[15:25] Gadigan: The Warehouse having them as a common drop
[15:25] Gadigan: Actually metaphysically ties them a small bit to BA members
[15:25] Gadigan: So BA members have an inherent, tiny advantage with Cannon Shields
[15:26] Gadigan: Not enough to shift builds to accommodate it
[15:26] Gadigan: But it's there
[15:26] Gadigan: Other questions?
[15:26] Caelzeph: Somewhere, there is a BA Member that specialises in Cannon-Shields and Landhawks
[15:26] Gadigan: Haha
[15:26] Gadigan: Yep!
[15:26] Gadigan: And their association with each other
[15:26] Gadigan: Actually makes them better together
[15:26] Gadigan: If you're riding a Landhawk (or are a Landhawk with arms), your Cannon Shields improve
[15:30] Gadigan: Alright, I'll be back later, probably.

Forces, including the *Grand Unifying Theory wrote: [21:26] Gadigan: Forces
[21:26] Gadigan: Class is Controller
[21:26] Gadigan: Mentalist weapon in the CYOA format
[21:27] Gadigan: Forces are able to be based on any attack type and any stat
[21:27] Gadigan: The ability to monofocus through them on what a character is good at is strong
[21:27] Gadigan: They are sculptable, intangible in inherent nature, but becoming tangible when shaped with intent
[21:28] Gadigan: The main inspiration for them, style-wise
[21:28] Gadigan: Is Green Lantern
[21:28] Gadigan: You can make constructs, you can shoot waves of power, you can whirl them around like nimbuses of dust
[21:28] Gadigan: They draw upon an aspect or group of aspects of the wielder
[21:28] Gadigan: And use that to drive whatever their core essence is
[21:29] Gadigan: Lots of meldable oomph there
[21:29] Gadigan: The potential downside is that each one is focused on a particular energy/particle/theme, and if something resists it, other powers that respec it don't get around the resistance as easily
[21:30] Gadigan: If you're using the Force of the Volcano's Fury, and you've got something that resists fire or quells emotions, you're going to have trouble fighting it
[21:30] Gadigan: They also require more concentration to use than other weapons are are more responsive to damage to the wielder's condition or mental state
[21:30] Gadigan: So if you're flagging, the force is weaker, as opposed to say a sword - where you might be wielding it worse, but the weapon itself is as strong as ever
[21:31] Gadigan: The Force takes hits on both sides there - it's weaker, and you're wielding it more poorly
[21:31] Gadigan: Their connection to the wielder makes them moderately more swayed by momentum, both positive and negative, than other base weapon types
[21:31] Gadigan: It isn't a top factor with them, but it's a thing to be aware of
[21:31] Gadigan: Becoming good at using Forces helps refine control over self
[21:31] Gadigan: And one's own energy flow
[21:32] Gadigan: And anything else that requires a degree of focus, willpower, or 'control'
[21:32] Gadigan: Whether in a direct or abstract sense
[21:32] Gadigan: Having enough investment in both Forces and Souls lets you use the two together to establish personal control of beings who are similar enough to the soul wielded
[21:32] Gadigan: Questions about Forces?
[21:33] The Nottest of Daves: First, I suppose, is Synergies
[21:33] Gadigan: Aha
[21:33] Gadigan: Forces
[21:33] Gadigan: Synergize with basically every Element-based class
[21:33] Gadigan: They also synergize with Soul
[21:33] Gadigan: With Enchantment
[21:33] Gadigan: With Force Magic
[21:33] Gadigan: With Auras in terms of armor
[21:34] Gadigan: A lot of the ability to control and project Forces
[21:34] Santooth: Seem like they synergise with whatever they do
[21:34] Gadigan: Helps with bubbling an aura out and doing wave-effects with it or sculpting it
[21:34] Gadigan: And yes, Forces synergize with things that are thematically similar to them
[21:34] Gadigan: Also synergy with Monk / Ki / Void for self-improvement and enhanced control of things
[21:35] Gadigan: Synergy with Elemental Magic for controlling elements without embodying them
[21:35] Gadigan: Light synergy with most magic types
[21:35] Gadigan: Some synergy with Fist Weapons, particularly if combined with a matching Aura - cover yourself in the Force and fight away
[21:52] The Nottest of Daves: Essence of the First Fire- (Weapon, Force, Fire, 60,000,000 Gold) +60,000 Melee Attack, +60,000 Ranged Attack, +60,000 Magical Attack, Wielder's actions may become solely Fire element, 40% Fire Resistance, If an source below Level 60 would deal possessor Fire element Damage, said Damage (including Stat Damage or Defense Damage) is converted into healing, Wielder ignores the the Fire Immunity, Resistance, Reflection, and Absorption of individuals below Level 60, Wielder must be Level 20 or greater
[21:52] The Nottest of Daves: Obviously, like Force of the Volcano's Fury, it's a fire-aspect
[21:52] Gadigan: That one is themed on the element of Fire
[21:52] Gadigan: Yeah
[21:52] The Nottest of Daves: but what makes it different
[21:53] Gadigan: There's a bit of an age aspect there
[21:53] Gadigan: A bit of a 'can start things'
[21:53] Gadigan: Less anger
[21:53] Gadigan: Possibly power level differences - the other item was theoretical and doesn't have a Gold cost statted out
[21:53] Gadigan: There can be multiple Forces with the same domain
[21:53] Gadigan: By no means are they all unique
[21:53] The Nottest of Daves: of course
[21:54] Gadigan: That one also has subtle associations with butterflies and moths and other insects
[21:54] Gadigan: Even if they aren't in the stat block
[21:54] The Nottest of Daves: because it drops from that butterfly monster, right?
[21:54] Gadigan: Yes.
[21:54] Gadigan: I mean, it's partially one direction, partially the other
[21:54] Gadigan: It drops from the butterfly monster
[21:55] Gadigan: Because the First Fire both emits and attracts butterflies
[21:55] Gadigan: But dropping from that reinforces the association
[21:55] Gadigan: So it's a cycle where each step holds the others up a smidge
[21:56] The Nottest of Daves: There's a number of elemental-retunings of that item via combos
[21:56] The Nottest of Daves: are they still tied to the butterfly-theme?
[21:56] Gadigan: Not necessarily, no
[21:56] Gadigan: Some might maintain the connection, others could have lost it or gone in totally different directions
[21:57] Gadigan: Even if they're the 'first something'
[21:57] The Nottest of Daves: Alright, thanks
[21:57] Gadigan: np
[21:57] The Nottest of Daves: Moving on to the next drop-item Force
[21:57] Gadigan: Yes?
[21:58] The Nottest of Daves: Contained Thermonuclear Sundroplet- (Weapon, Force, Fire & Light & Atomic, 80,000,000 Gold) +80,000 Melee Attack, +80,000 Ranged Attack, +80,000 Magical Attack, 80% inflicts Poison: Irradiated, 60% inflicts Burning, 60% inflicts Awestruck, Wielder must be Level 40 or greater
[21:58] Gadigan: That one has associations of the sun, atom bombs, potent power barely restrained, and crows
[21:58] Gadigan: It blends Light, Fire, and Atomic
[21:58] Gadigan: It isn't particularly tied to any one stat
[21:58] Gadigan: But defaults to Spirit
[21:59] Gadigan: That default is more meldable than something that forced Spirit
[21:59] Gadigan: Well
[21:59] Gadigan: Spirit for Magical
[21:59] Gadigan: It would Melee with Strength
[21:59] Gadigan: And Ranged with Agility
[21:59] Gadigan: Agility tends to come out as Danmaku sun stuff if you don't twist it otherwise
[21:59] Gadigan: Because of Utsuho as a reference point
[21:59] Gadigan: But
[21:59] Gadigan: It's easy to change it
[21:59] Gadigan: And be chucking raindrops that turn into atomic bomb blasts or something
[22:00] Gadigan: Good at working with Auras because of the 'Contained' aspect
[22:00] Gadigan: Since Auras define a bounded field
[22:00] The Nottest of Daves: nods
[22:01] The Nottest of Daves: So, next is my unique
*Grand Unifying Theory- (Weapon, Other: Weapon of Legend, Technology & Psychic, Lv. 19, X Gold) +36,000 Melee Attack, +36,000 Magical Attack, +36,000 Ranged Attack, +36,000 Defense, 138% To Hit, +38% To Hit, Wielder's Prime Attribute for 'Melee Attack', 'Magical Attack', 'Ranged Attack', 'Overdrive', 'Melee Overdrive', and 'Ranged Overdrive' actions may become any one stat, Wielder's actions may become solely any combination of base elements, Wielder may change equipped non-unique spells to be solely any one base spell subtype at the start of any round, This item possesses the subtype Force, This item may not normally be equipped unless a proper ability is possessed
XP: 0
XP Needed: 1,400,000 (Standard Multiplier x1 (x10 artifact in terms of power), raised to x20 to bypass Level 20 barrier)
[22:03] Gadigan: That one is special - it's one theory that is able to encompass / explain / include / define pretty much anything around it
[22:03] Gadigan: It can be shaped to any one stat that the wielder uses
[22:03] Gadigan: Similarly, it can unify all spells into one type to cast
[22:04] Gadigan: Similarly, it can control elements
[22:04] Gadigan: That one gives tons more control than normal Forces
[22:04] Gadigan: And is a Weapon of Legend for a reason
[22:04] Gadigan: It has an inherent twist towards science and technology
[22:04] Gadigan: But can be skewed towards magic explaining everything easily
[22:04] Gadigan: Or divine power
[22:04] Gadigan: Or everything being made of thoughts
[22:05] Gadigan: Or everything stemming from Mystery retcons
[22:05] Gadigan: Or something else
[22:05] Gadigan: It could be used both to analyze real things and figure out how they fit into everything as it is
[22:05] Gadigan: Or it can be a theoretical construct that assumes control over stuff, re-defines it, and forces it to fit a desired paradigm
[22:07] The Nottest of Daves: Is it attuned to Science enough that it could be considered a dual Science-Mentalist type rather than pure Mentalist?
[22:08] Celas: That's pretty funny.
[22:08] Celas: "SCIENCE HAS SPOKEN! Turns out it's all magic."
[22:08] The Nottest of Daves: pffff
[22:10] Gadigan: I think there may be a bit of a misunderstanding there on the super-categories.
The weapon would still be sitting in a Mentalist class in that framework, but the item itself has thematics outside of that which would connect to Scientist also.
So it benefits from both. The individual item themes are more important for most purposes than the category groups, but there's still a pull of the category behind the scenes in terms of what abilities fit together better.
So the Controller abilities still synergize better with the Mentalist and Enslaver abilities on a base level than they would Scientist and Gunner.
Having said that, the Unifying Theorem could try to take actions to reshape what is connected to what and force-bridge a connection between Souls and Guns or something. That'd be more tenuous and would require actual setup / be disruptable, but it's something you could try to do.
[22:10] Gadigan: Haha
[22:10] Gadigan: Does that answer things?
[22:11] The Nottest of Daves: Indeed!
[22:11] Gadigan: Good

Legionnaires, Mystery, and Progress wrote: [21:37] Santooth: I've been wondering about these new leigionnaires that have been popping up everywhere. Do they function like a partially-self-guilded fading call? An untargetable (often unique) ally is present helping you? A targetable ally?
[21:38] Gadigan: Bit of a tangent from the weapons-talk, but we can veer there briefly
[21:39] Santooth: I'd imagine all the traditional leadership bits help with then.

Also, did mystery get bumped back up to T3 or is it still at T2?
[21:39] The Nottest of Daves: Mystery is still T2
[21:39] Gadigan: They're people you can incorporate into your personal mana pattern
[21:39] The Nottest of Daves: No elements changed tier in the [UNDEFINED]
[21:39] Gadigan: They act as close attendants to the point that they're somewhat a part of you
[21:39] Gadigan: Though not as much as if you're a unit
[21:40] Gadigan: They aren't easily upgradable
[21:40] Gadigan: But are hard to damage individually in a lasting way while equipped
[21:40] Gadigan: Though it's not impossible
[21:40] Gadigan: They're your personal panopoly of bodyguards
[21:40] Gadigan: Like a fighting game character whose attacks and blocks are all assists from other people on the stage
[21:40] Santooth: I was chatting with gad about that and he mentioned he was considering the tier change on Mystery due to its goofy-good power range (for T2). More off target though.
[21:40] Gadigan: Or an emperor who has been with his honor guard so long they have merged into 'who he is' and he almost 'wears' them as something that travels around with him
[21:41] Gadigan: Or someone who accepts ghosts into their body, haunting themself and unleashing them for power
[21:41] Gadigan: Most of them are incorporeal or notional to a degree
[21:41] Gadigan: Normal people tend to end up as pets rather than Legionnaires
21:41] Gadigan: But if you have a spectral butler who just swoops in to aid your actions, that might be a Legionnaire
[21:41] Gadigan: If they're attacked
[21:41] Gadigan: They can be put down for a bit
[21:41] Gadigan: But tend to spring back up between events
[21:42] Gadigan: Like someone who gets knocked down in a two-player game
[21:42] Gadigan: Then when there's a breather
[21:42] Gadigan: They stand back up and join the companion again
[21:42] Gadigan: Only more subordinate rather than two players
[21:42] Gadigan: Demons and ghosts and imaginary friends and other semi-corporeal possessing things are the most common type
[21:43] Gadigan: There's some worlds that smith butlers, honor guards, and other forces/servants into items to make them last longer, be inheritable, be more loyal, etc
[21:43] Gadigan: Those produce them too
[21:43] Gadigan: They're more common now than they were previously
[21:43] Gadigan: But they're still not common on most worlds
[21:43] Gadigan: Leadership stuff does help with them
[21:43] Gadigan: General
[21:43] Gadigan: Commander
[21:43] Gadigan: Noble
[21:43] Gadigan: Etc
[21:43] Gadigan: Yes
[21:44] Gadigan: Grandeur helps some too - 'I have people who are part of my raiment' there
[21:44] Gadigan: Treasure a bit too
[21:44] Gadigan: And whatever matches their subtype
[21:44] Gadigan: They're generally in a kind of 'fall on their swords if the boss goes down' mode a lot of the time
[21:44] Gadigan: So
[21:44] Gadigan: If you go down
[21:44] Gadigan: They enter inert states
[21:44] Gadigan: Or get inherited
[21:44] Gadigan: Or looted
[21:45] Gadigan: Or something of the sort
[21:45] Gadigan: They're less people in some ways
[21:45] Gadigan: But moreso in others than dungeon monsters
[21:45] Gadigan: They can understand more concepts
[21:45] Gadigan: If the wielder knows about those concepts
[21:45] Santooth: Would the stands in Jojo be leigonnaires?
[21:45] Gadigan: As opposed to monsters that tend to have mental blocks
[21:45] Gadigan: Yes! Stands would be a great example
[21:46] Gadigan: As for Mystery, currently T2, though I'm strongly considering a bump back to T3, because it's weird having its effects at a lower Tier when it's so retcon-grab-bag-y
[21:46] Gadigan: And because
[21:46] Gadigan: Tsayyik happened
[21:46] Gadigan: It was reduced in power because the winning Heaven Architects, as part of their win, dampened it when they made Truth
[21:46] Gadigan: With Tsayikk around and screwing stuff up
[21:46] Gadigan: A fair chunk of that victory got eaten
[21:46] Gadigan: I mean
[21:46] Gadigan: Not all of it
[21:47] Gadigan: I don't want to undo the success
[21:47] Gadigan: So there's still knights everywhere
[21:47] Gadigan: But
[21:47] Gadigan: There's now a major villain again
[21:47] Gadigan: Instead of things being in an age of good
[21:47] Gadigan: Where PC villains would be on the outs
[21:47] Santooth: The Knights kinda mass-stabilized things
[21:47] Gadigan: Which was kind of an interesting setting idea
[21:47] Gadigan: But
[21:47] Gadigan: It got run into sideways by a glitch-truck
[21:47] Santooth: Mystery was among those things
[21:48] Gadigan: Yeah, they helped stop a lot of runaway threats
[21:48] Celas: 's an odd criteria, considering how monofocused some Elements are regardless of tier (I mean, Progress's status is artificial, but it's still ludicrously one-trick) and how broad some lower ones are (I mean, we're doing this at all because I went over a spread of Void and pasted the log at ya)
[21:48] Santooth: Knights seem to have gotten knocked out of their near-universal dominance with Tsayikk
[21:48] Santooth: Knights seem to have gotten knocked out of their near-universal dominance with Tsayikk
[21:49] Gadigan: Perhaps it is an odd criteria
[21:49] Santooth: In a lot of ways Mystery feels more like a T0 element than anything
[21:49] Gadigan: But I've been seeing a lot of the T3 elements as able to accomplish nearly anything
[21:49] Gadigan: Through one base conceit
[21:49] Gadigan: And within that, they have broad fiat
[21:49] Celas: hah, at some point I've got a thing to send you about that, but I'd prefer if we didn't get bogged off topic
[21:49] Celas: lotsa lacking weapon classes to go
[21:49] Gadigan: Dream reshapes reality, Clipboards (not an element) reshape reality, Mystery reshapes reality, Progress reshapes things to the point where it might as well reshape reality

Teapots wrote: [22:33] Gadigan: Alrighty, I think that covers tangents
[22:33] Gadigan: Were there any other
[22:33] Gadigan: Requested weapon types?
[22:33] The Nottest of Daves: I think Cael asked for Teapot at one point
[22:33] Celas: Scythe
[22:33] Celas: haha
[22:33] The Nottest of Daves: Ah, yes
[22:33] Celas: but yes, Teapot plz
[22:34] Gadigan: Teapot
[22:34] Gadigan: Class: Lady of the Exceptional Leaf
[22:34] Gadigan: Not in the CYOA version yet
[22:34] Gadigan: Blends elegance and doom
[22:35] Gadigan: It is heavily grounded in an early-BA-version horror-haunted Teapot that was fairly squarely awful to be around
[22:35] Gadigan: But spiralling off from that
[22:35] Gadigan: It is good at blending effects
[22:35] Gadigan: It can infuse Poison in particular
[22:35] Gadigan: But other status effects in general
[22:35] Gadigan: Minor
[22:35] Gadigan: Moderate
[22:35] Gadigan: Positive
[22:35] Gadigan: Negative
[22:35] Gadigan: Even some major
[22:35] Gadigan: With additional effects
[22:35] Gadigan: Or alternate effects
[22:36] Gadigan: There's usually a short bit of brew time on that
[22:36] Gadigan: Similarly
[22:36] Gadigan: It can infuse a spell
[22:36] Celas: (Rosaline being unintentionally inherently terrifying intensifies)
[22:36] Gadigan: Brew the spell briefly
[22:36] Gadigan: Let it loose with an effect added on to it
[22:36] Gadigan: It can be used to pour out vast amounts of liquid
[22:36] Gadigan: Synergizes with Water
[22:36] Gadigan: But can also blend Fire with Water
[22:36] Gadigan: For boiling water
[22:36] Gadigan: Or lava
[22:36] Gadigan: Or other liquids
[22:36] Gadigan: Depending on the teapot
[22:36] Gadigan: And what has been put in it
[22:36] Gadigan: You can pour oceans of molten gold
[22:37] Gadigan: Or of poison
[22:37] Gadigan: Or of acid
[22:37] Gadigan: Or of living death-slime
[22:37] Gadigan: On the flip side
[22:37] Gadigan: It helps with Rituals
[22:37] Gadigan: Big synergy with Ritual Magic
[22:37] Gadigan: It can both force tea-party ritual arrangements within combat
[22:37] Gadigan: And can enhance negotiations
[22:37] Gadigan: And if you're not in combat
[22:37] Gadigan: You can relax with it
[22:38] Gadigan: And brew up long-lasting positive effects and effect variants
[22:38] Gadigan: Duration and potency can both be controlled
[22:38] Gadigan: And the longer you have to brew things without disruption
[22:38] Gadigan: Attacks and curses hitting can disrupt what's being brewed
[22:38] Gadigan: The more properties you can enhance or alter
[22:38] Gadigan: There's big synergy with Bartender, Chef, and Alchemist
[22:38] Gadigan: Synergy with Boxes
[22:39] Gadigan: Light synergy with Thief
[22:39] Gadigan: Moderate with Assassin, Gentleman Assassin, etc
[22:39] Gadigan: Mix of poison, disguised weapon, elegance
[22:39] Gadigan: Treasure synergizes some with it
[22:39] Gadigan: Toxin too
[22:39] Gadigan: Grandeur some
[22:39] Gadigan: Wealth some
[22:39] Gadigan: It Flows would work well for an Imaginary element
[22:39] Gadigan: Synergy with Horrors
[22:39] Gadigan: And Terror
[22:39] Gadigan: And Madness
[22:40] Gadigan: Some synergy with Void
[22:40] Gadigan: Synergy on the Armor side is a bit Clothes, a bit Robe, but not too much any in particular
[22:40] Gadigan: Auras and Wards could theoretically be pumped with it
[22:40] Gadigan: Ocean Prince synergy
[22:40] Gadigan: Sorceress a bit
[22:40] Gadigan: Questions?
[22:41] Gadigan: It can also be used to try to force peace
[22:41] Gadigan: Or at least negotiations
[22:41] Gadigan: But some things can push past that
[22:41] Celas: hah, that's a neat bit
[22:41] Gadigan: There's a dichotomy where
[22:41] Gadigan: It elevates itself above brutish things when more powerful
[22:42] Gadigan: But if around the same power
[22:42] Gadigan: The brutish and vulgar can break past it
[22:42] Gadigan: Lots of small goblins can't do much
[22:42] Gadigan: If you get an equal-level Bullkin Ogre Ragebellower or something
[22:42] Gadigan: It's going to just mess up the tea party
[22:42] Gadigan: Wreck the mood and reduce the buffs
[22:42] Gadigan: Set the teapot spinning and ruin the brew
[22:42] Gadigan: Etc
[22:43] Gadigan: It's a class where poise, decorum, elegance, and elevation (in a metaphorical sense more than a literal one, though a tad bit of a literal one) matter
[22:43] Gadigan: Questions?
[22:44] The Nottest of Daves: Does it have any other spell types it particularly plays well with, aside from Alchemy and sort-of Thief?
[22:45] Gadigan: Ritual Magic
[22:45] The Nottest of Daves: right, you did mention that
[22:45] Gadigan: Beyond that, none immediately spring to mind. You can do some Healer Magic stuff with it, some Biomancy via distilling effects, but by and large, it isn't super synergized to specific spell types
[22:46] Gadigan: Though I might be forgetting something
[22:46] Gadigan: Enchantment and Illusion work with it some
[22:46] Gadigan: Fae also
[22:46] Gadigan: Oozes
[22:46] Gadigan: Neither as much as Horrors, though
[22:47] The Nottest of Daves: What about Darkspawn?
[22:48] The Nottest of Daves: Any direct synergies, or just the effect based ones of Madness and Terror working well with Teapots?
[22:48] Gadigan: Darkspawn synergize some, yes
[22:48] Gadigan: Given that they connect to Horrors
[22:48] Gadigan: So
[22:48] Gadigan: Not adjacent
[22:48] Gadigan: But one step removed
[22:48] Gadigan: And a step that can be traversed
[22:49] Gadigan: Without much problem
[22:49] Gadigan: It can be worked through pretty easily

Scythes wrote: [22:53] Gadigan: Scythes
[22:53] Gadigan: Class is Reaper
[22:53] Gadigan: Grouped in the Priest weapons in the CYOA
[22:53] Gadigan: But synergizes well with Warrior and Necromancer despite that
[22:53] Gadigan: Necromancer is actually the largest synergy
[22:53] Gadigan: But it also works pretty well for Priests, Warlocks, Diabolists, etc
[22:53] Gadigan: Good at hitting for high crit damage
[22:53] Gadigan: Good for leading Undead
[22:54] Gadigan: Synergy with Voidstruck and Wounded
[22:54] Gadigan: Some resource collection via harvesting
[22:54] Gadigan: Connection there to Druid
[22:54] Gadigan: And from there to Plants
[22:54] Gadigan: Both helping them with buffs
[22:54] Gadigan: And chopping into them with attacks
[22:54] Gadigan: Bad at defending directly, works better with someone augmenting themself with defense effects that involve rebirth/regeneration/drain
[22:55] Gadigan: Pretty good at drain, though not super specced in it
[22:55] Gadigan: Works with both Spirit and Strength to a degree
[22:55] Gadigan: For martial casters
[22:55] Gadigan: There's both one-handed and two-handed options
[22:55] Gadigan: Good with Instant Death
[22:55] Gadigan: Probably the best base weapon for that
[22:56] Gadigan: Stronger when wielded by Undead, though not massively so
[22:56] Gadigan: Questions?
[22:57] Celas: Hm. Any esoteric surprises, there?
[23:01] The Nottest of Daves: Is it notably better or worse at attack-chaining than other melee weapons?
[23:08] Gadigan: Esoteric surprises, hmm?
[23:08] Gadigan: Let's see
[23:08] Gadigan: Moon
[23:08] Gadigan: Scythes synergize well with Moon
[23:08] Gadigan: Because of the Crescent shape
[23:08] Gadigan: Through this
[23:08] Gadigan: And Druid magic's connection to natural cycles
[23:08] Celas: Oho
[23:08] Gadigan: They can extend Moon, and by extension Illusion
[23:09] Gadigan: To Druid Magic, and by extension Geomancy
[23:09] Gadigan: Attack chaining - worse at direct hit-chain juggling and stun-lock
[23:09] Gadigan: But
[23:09] Gadigan: You can get around that some with trick builds
[23:09] Gadigan: That use Transmuter or Flux Baron to alter haft length dynamically
[23:10] Gadigan: Or graft scythes to limb tips and then use Scythes as also Fist Weapons
[23:10] Gadigan: Or other things
[23:10] Gadigan: But
[23:10] Gadigan: They are naturally
[23:10] Gadigan: Good at cyclic chains of hits
[23:10] Gadigan: On different rounds
[23:10] Gadigan: So you can establish a pattern of
[23:10] Gadigan: This, then this, then a third thing, then a final one
[23:10] Gadigan: And have a building emphasis/danger to them
[23:10] Gadigan: If you pull off the combo a few times
[23:12] The Nottest of Daves: Any particular ties to Horrors/Monsters beyond things that dual-subtype with Undead?
[23:15] Gadigan: Not really, no. Almost better for monster-hunting than monster-mastery for those specific categories, though not specced in that either.
[23:15] Gadigan: Some tiny ties to Demons, Devils, other planar stuff

Superhero wrote:[17:15] Gadigan: Let's talk about
[17:15] Gadigan: Super Powers
[17:15] Gadigan: As an aside
[17:15] Gadigan: Since they have been coming up in other windows
[17:15] Gadigan: And I think there are some non-obvious holes in people's understanding of my intent with them
[17:16] Gadigan: As a baseline, people aren't supposed to be able to invest in the class easily
[17:16] Gadigan: At all
[17:16] Gadigan: It is meant to be something that people get randomly struck with as a bonus power
[17:16] Gadigan: That then offers them a focused benefit in one area
[17:16] Gadigan: One power alone is hard to expand
[17:16] Gadigan: If someone gets hit a few times and develops similar powers
[17:16] Gadigan: They can move into it more full-time
[17:16] Caelzeph: (To be fair, that's pretty much exactly how Caelum and the Doctor stumbled into them)
[17:17] Gadigan: Indeed
[17:17] Gadigan: They are meant to be heavily associated with personal excellence in an area
[17:17] Gadigan: Which is tied to exceptional Base Stats
[17:17] Gadigan: Which are then tied to particular superhero themes
[17:17] Gadigan: They're a Mentalist spell class
[17:17] Gadigan: But
[17:17] Gadigan: Are only partially associated with it
[17:18] Gadigan: Really high base STR will give you super-strength, let you hulk out, let you play catch with buildings, make you a physical bruiser, etc
[17:18] Gadigan: CON gives you invulnerability or super-durability or some sort of armor-body
[17:18] Gadigan: Together, those two make you a brick
[17:18] Gadigan: AGI makes you a speedster, zipping around like the Flash
[17:19] Gadigan: MIN makes you a super-psychic, mass reading/wiping/interfacing with minds. Think Professor X or Jean Grey
[17:19] Gadigan: SPI gives you energy projection
[17:19] Gadigan: MIN can also put you into Gadgeteer
[17:19] Gadigan: Or into Detective
[17:19] Caelzeph: Caelum and the Doctor are both invested into MIN-SPI, Caelum in a more balanced fashion
[17:19] Gadigan: With the Masked Detective archetype also taking some in the physical stats
[17:20] Caelzeph: I guess that mix would tilt towards the Magic Superhero nonsense
[17:20] Gadigan: There's other sub-groupings that would take specific base stat combinations to pull
[17:20] Caelzeph: Or 'strange powers FROM THE BEYOOOOOND'
[17:20] Draconics: what is it a sign of then if one DOES buy into the basic???
[17:20] Gadigan: Eventually, the class lets you start improving your base stats, but only ones associated with your powers
[17:20] Gadigan: And you can only get powers if you already have a stat super-high or if you luck into them
[17:20] The One True Pathaky: You're a Batman type
[17:20] The One True Pathaky: Money > Basestats
[17:21] Gadigan: If you do buy it from the basic, it's a sign that you're an exceptional individual, to the point where you can attain superpowers through dedicated training
[17:21] The One True Pathaky: Or that, haha
[17:21] Gadigan: If you train one area, you're a superhero in a standard sense, but trained into it
[17:21] Gadigan: If you somehow get all the stats high enough (or powers from all of them)
[17:21] The One True Pathaky: The Hunter X Hunter/ Shonen method, perhaps
[17:21] Gadigan: You're a true Superhero and can start pulling powers out of nowhere like Silver Age Superman
[17:22] Gadigan: So it's meant to have focused subtrees
[17:22] Gadigan: And once you're in one, you can get related ones
[17:22] Gadigan: But it requires luck or absurd power to get into all of them
[17:22] Caelzeph: Caelum's kind of weird in that he has two very STR-focused Superpowers without having high STR
[17:22] Caelzeph: And the Doctor has... uh
[17:22] Caelzeph: Well
[17:23] Caelzeph: Super spandex-wearing, powering up from people being sad, and being an invisible samurai
[17:23] Gadigan: That'll probably let Caelum actually eventually increase his base STR
[17:23] Celas: (*quietly weeps in unfulfilled Super Speed Anathema ambitions for the last 12ish years*)
[17:23] Caelzeph: (The Doctor's STR is abysmal)
[17:24] Gadigan: He doesn't inherently have that strength, but he acquired it through random power chance, so it's explicitly an untrained super-ability, but if he keeps using it and refining it, he can improve his personal strength even when not using the power
[17:24] The One True Pathaky: getchu some wings
[17:24] The One True Pathaky: Just uh, not mine
[17:24] Celas: Haha, actually, I was joking
[17:24] Caelzeph: Hm
[17:24] Celas: [FLAYERS KNIVES SHARPEN MENACINGLY]
[17:24] Caelzeph: Is there a 'if you gained a superpower, you're more likely to gain more' theme?
[17:24] The One True Pathaky: Nole's had Milk Toast ripped off of him before
[17:25] Caelzeph: Not necessarily focused, I mean
[17:25] Celas: I hit my ambition during CAIN when she surpassed Time Stop with pure speed and even having lost it, am content
[17:26] Caelzeph: (The Doctor has a weird assortment and I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up spontaneously gaining weirder ones with no discernable connection. Then again, that's kind of on-theme for him)
[17:26] Gadigan: There is, yes. Superpowers start attracting more superpowers some as you become more and more defined as an individual who is a superhero
[17:27] Celas: Does having Hero or Villain increase your odds?
[17:27] Caelzeph: By the Powers What Is, he is Confusion-Man
[17:29] Gadigan: Huh. In most circumstances, no, but if you got on a superhero-themed world and did questing on it in a manner matching the alignment suggested by your quest, I'd switch that to a yes.
[17:29] Gadigan: Interesting idea there!
[17:30] Caelzeph: Mentioning it here too, in case people missed the post in the Tsayikk-thread: Enigma Men don't share Bonus Weeks with their Identities, each has a separate pile. I'll be editing the main post to portion the weeks out soonish.
[17:31] Gadigan: If I gave someone a personal ruling in the past that conflicts with that, it never made it to the rules thread and has been overruled by today's ruling
[17:32] Celas: I was actually thinking about pushing Demos into Superhero earlier this afternoon, so this chat interests me.
[17:35] Gadigan: Glad it has helped people out
[17:35] Gadigan: Any questions remaining on Superheroes?
[17:35] Draconics: does learning too abilities from it tend to draw ire in any way
[17:35] Draconics: ?
[17:37] Celas: (JACKANAPES, THE JESTER OF JUSTICE! Maybe?)
[17:37] Caelzeph: In my case I had the random abilities first, then finagled my way into the Basic
[17:39] Draconics: I just ask because in his quest for non-standard castings, Draconics snuck in, but idk if it interacts with Villain
[17:40] Gadigan: Learning abilities from Superhero doesn't tend to draw ire in normal circumstances. If you go hang out on specific worlds with lots of organized superheroes or supervillains who are known to be aggressive towards the other type, it could draw attention, and some worlds might have effects set to bring superheroes into plot arcs where people need saving, but those sorts of things could occur for a wider range of classes - there's some worlds where knights (not the Kriele type specifically, either) are more likely to get challenged or get quests

Orbs wrote: [20:32] Gadigan: Orb
[20:32] Gadigan: Class is Magus
[20:33] Gadigan: Subweapon of Focus in the CYOA version
[20:33] Gadigan: Wizard weapon subtype
[20:33] Gadigan: Highly magic-focused, but also includes balls on the BA version
[20:34] Gadigan: CYOA version breaks the balls off into a subweapon of Throwing Weapon
[20:34] Gadigan: But that's there, not here
[20:34] Gadigan: So the balls are present in this one
[20:34] Gadigan: Meaning it has Ranged Attack in addition to Magical
[20:34] Gadigan: Throwing it is the basic attack for it
[20:34] Gadigan: Both Magical and Ranged
[20:34] Gadigan: If you're throwing it and it's magical
[20:34] Gadigan: It turns into the focus of the spell
[20:34] Gadigan: Or becomes cometary in nature
[20:35] Gadigan: Surging around and streaking through battle in a nimbus of magical energy
[20:35] Gadigan: That having been said
[20:35] Gadigan: There are also styles to fight with them shooting beams and the like
[20:35] Gadigan: So that's possible to do otherwise if you don't like the throwing version
[20:35] Gadigan: Whose prominence has been amplified in what has been shown to BA members
[20:35] Gadigan: Due to Ryan the Bowling Wizard
[20:35] Gadigan: Who is far more specced into that
[20:35] Gadigan: Than most Magi are
[20:36] Gadigan: So yes, focus blasts and beams are possible
[20:36] Gadigan: Main synergy is with Divination
[20:36] Gadigan: Due to the whole scrying orb focus
[20:36] Gadigan: Beyond that, it works well as an off-hand for Wand or Staff wielders
[20:36] Gadigan: And can actually help project magic shields / Abjuration / Wards / Auras if off-handed
[20:37] Gadigan: Actually works worse at that if dual wielding orbs
[20:37] Gadigan: Abjuration benefits in general
[20:37] Gadigan: Because shields are frequently bubble shaped
[20:37] Gadigan: Which calls to mind the shape of the orb
[20:37] Gadigan: Meaning that as a focus for them
[20:37] Gadigan: It is slightly a more natural fit than something more oddly-shaped
[20:37] Gadigan: They also pair well with Meditating
[20:37] Gadigan: And Meditation variants
[20:38] Gadigan: To focus power, recover MP, scry while meditating, astral travel, etc
[20:38] Gadigan: Some connection to Psychic Powers and Mentalists
[20:38] Gadigan: Due to crystal ball fortune tellers
[20:38] Gadigan: Similar tenuous connections to Fate and Fortune
[20:38] Gadigan: Connected to Crystal as an element
[20:38] Gadigan: Magic as an element
[20:38] Caelzeph: Void perhaps
[20:38] Gadigan: Mystic as an element
[20:38] Caelzeph: Due to Meditation and all that
[20:39] Gadigan: Void works well with Meditation, yeah. Not a ton of direct links to Orbs with Void itself, but there's probably a sub-tree out there for it
[20:39] Gadigan: Questions on Orb?
[20:39] Gadigan: Ah, at higher Levels
[20:39] Gadigan: Synergy with Astral Magic
[20:39] Gadigan: And with manipulating planets in general
[20:39] Caelzeph: Oho
[20:40] Caelzeph: Given Scythe had Moon-links due to shape, does Orb too?
[20:41] Gadigan: Going with yes. Less than Scythe, but there absolutely is a connection there. I think I even used an orb as an example for incorporating weapons into casting actions with that skull moon plunge spell
[20:41] Caelzeph: Woo
[20:41] Caelzeph: Haha, here's a thought
[20:41] Caelzeph: Could it have Santa-links due to snow globes
[20:42] Gadigan: Hah
[20:42] Caelzeph: (considering where to take it as both Caels are invested in it)
[20:42] Gadigan: I can see it being useful for that sort of thing, yeah. That'd be a sub-tree and not a main feature, but that's absolutely something that could be pulled
NEW
[20:43] Caelzeph: Excellent
[20:43] Caelzeph: That's all the questions that sprang to mind for now
[20:45] Gadigan: Okay

Clipboards wrote: [20:46] Gadigan: Clipboard
[20:46] Gadigan: Class is Reality Auditor
[20:46] Gadigan: Tier 3 class
[20:46] Gadigan: Not in the CYOA version yet
[20:46] Gadigan: Previously a Valcont class
[20:47] Gadigan: From when he was using The Devil's Paperwork and causing problems on the Homeworld
[20:47] Gadigan: It's one of the historical ones, alongside the Elder Geists and Abhorrent Demons
[20:47] Gadigan: That is no longer actively under his control
[20:47] Gadigan: Despite lingering associations
[20:47] Gadigan: So it's safe enough for BA members to use
[20:47] Gadigan: And has more Law implications than Evil ones these days
[20:47] Gadigan: Though it can still be skewed Evil
[20:47] Gadigan: It just doesn't have to be
[20:48] Gadigan: Heavy links to Law the element
[20:48] Gadigan: Also linked to Maces a bit, Books some
[20:48] Gadigan: Theoretically probably Quills some if I ever get those launched
[20:48] Gadigan: It edits reality
[20:48] Gadigan: It's reality warping
[20:48] Gadigan: But from a lawful, methodical root
[20:49] Gadigan: As opposed to dream's whimsy or divine's supremacy of power or other avenues
[20:49] Gadigan: It assesses all of reality
[20:49] Gadigan: Tabulates, quantifies, and enumerates it
[20:49] Gadigan: And then makes it available for editing
[20:49] Gadigan: So it can do wide-area scans
[20:49] Gadigan: Counts super-fast
[20:49] Gadigan: Handles massive quantities of entities/objects well
[20:50] The One True Pathaky: Give a Jiang-Shi a clipboard
[20:50] Gadigan: And when it edits, it can do it in batches that are controlled by logical checks and conditionals
[20:50] The One True Pathaky: it'll be unstoppable
[20:50] Gadigan: Haha
[20:50] Gadigan: They would tend to be good with them. Yamas even moreso
[20:51] Gadigan: So you can almost program strings of reality edits to go off in sequence or in parallel
[20:51] The One True Pathaky: "We'll stop it by throwing rice! It has to count the grains one by one!"
[20:51] Gadigan: It also works well with Contingency Magic
[20:51] The One True Pathaky: "...is- is that an abacus and clipboard?"
[20:51] Gadigan: Hahaha
[20:51] Gadigan: And lets edits be placed reactively
[20:51] Gadigan: Prepped combat with a master of clipboard use is basically fighting Forcystus during the early/remote stages of dealing with him
[20:51] Gadigan: Setting up all sorts of red tape
[20:52] Gadigan: Manipulating the world and its laws
[20:52] Gadigan: Making mass changes, often somewhat offscreen, to the wielder's favor
[20:52] Gadigan: Quickly analyzing opponents and altering things to fight them
[20:52] Gadigan: Forcystus himself was even more of a menace, with Evil and Fiend on top of Clipboard
[20:52] Gadigan: And he got Elder Geist at one point
[20:52] Gadigan: So he's an extreme example
[20:53] Gadigan: But I think he works as a case study for clipboard manipulation
[20:53] Gadigan: Clipboards enhance Divination and scanning
[20:53] Gadigan: Clipboards can also program Ritual Magic so that it starts automating its parts instead of requiring the caster to directly be performing them all
[20:53] Gadigan: Works well with Coded Beings
[20:54] Gadigan: Works well with Geomancy and Summoning because it can conduct censuses and assess property / areas
[20:54] Gadigan: Good at drawing up magical contracts
[20:54] Gadigan: Good for making documents to bind things
[20:54] Gadigan: Overall extremely powerful and versatile
[20:54] Gadigan: As befits a T3 thing
[20:54] Gadigan: Questions on Clipboard?
[20:56] Celas: [10:53 PM] Gadigan: Clipboards can also program Ritual Magic so that it starts automating its parts instead of requiring the caster to directly be performing them all
[20:56] Celas: [MAD, MANIC LAUGHTER]
[20:58] The One True Pathaky: I'm amused that one of the most powerful vectors of force in the BA is bureaucracy
[20:58] Celas: Cael would want to ask about direct combat use, I think
[20:58] Celas: I don't really know how to phrase what he wants to know by proxy, though
[20:58] The One True Pathaky: Could you Audit wounds onto people/off of you?
[20:58] The One True Pathaky: What could attacking with a clipboard look like?
[20:59] Gadigan: Hah, it indeed is
[21:01] Gadigan: You could quantify and audit off wounds, yes. That'd require some base grounding in drain via some means, but as soon as you had basically any excuse for it, yes, that'd be very doable.
Auditing wounds onto people would be a basic attack, yes.
Exact attack style depends on clipboard in question and auditor's style.

You could list enemies, strike through them with red ink, have them drop dead, get sliced through with a black line, be covered in red lines that let out all of their blood and vitality in a burst (possibly collecting in well-measured, even cylinders of vital substances), or just disappear altogether.
[21:02] Gadigan: Or you could start listing workplace accidents where huge spheres of orihalcum fell onto the target and crushed them, and it would happen
[21:02] The One True Pathaky: I'm imagining Clipboard + Summoner as
[21:02] The One True Pathaky: yeah
[21:02] The One True Pathaky: that
[21:02] Gadigan: Or you could draw up anatomical diagrams and start scribbling out body parts
[21:02] The One True Pathaky: "I'm Requisitioning 2 orbital cruisers"
[21:02] Gadigan: Correct!
[21:04] Gadigan: You can also audit-write spells to start going off and empower casting through the clipboard / chain attack with spells one after another in routines
[21:04] Gadigan: Other questions?
[21:05] The Nottest of Daves: Would the Death Note be a Clipboard? XD
[21:05] Gadigan: Yes, haha. It'd fit well as one. It's monofocused by comparison, but writing the people and their death methods with it is a good reference point for a clipboard attack.

Instruments wrote:[20:11] Gadigan: Musician
[20:11] Gadigan: Class for Instrument weapons
[20:11] Gadigan: In the CYOA version, they're a Rogue weapon
[20:11] Gadigan: They can technically use any Prime Attribute
[20:11] Gadigan: But skew Spirit by default
[20:12] Gadigan: There's a lot of sub-weapons in the CYOA version that spec in different stats or merge it with other class types
[20:12] Gadigan: The BA doesn't currently have them split out
[20:12] Gadigan: But they're still useful for subtree knowledge
[20:12] Gadigan: Bells mix in Priest stuff, but stay Spirit
[20:12] Gadigan: Brass Instruments can shift Prime for Magical to Constitution
[20:13] Gadigan: Keyboard Instruments can shift Prime for Magical to Mind
[20:13] Gadigan: Percussion Instruments can shift Prime for Magical to Strength
[20:13] Gadigan: String Instruments can shift Prime for Magical to Agility
[20:13] Gadigan: Wind Instruments double down on the core focus and keep Spirit and Rogue elements
[20:13] Gadigan: Instruments synergize best with Bardic Music
[20:13] Gadigan: By far
[20:14] Gadigan: They're meant to work together
[20:14] Gadigan: They help allies Dance spells, but have almost no effect on the wielder's Dance unless you get something else going subtree or effect wise
[20:14] Gadigan: They're good at wide-area AOEs that are hard to dodge
[20:14] Gadigan: Synergize best with Sonic, followed by Air
[20:15] Gadigan: But individual instruments can be heavily elementally aspected to other things
[20:15] Gadigan: Good at AOE buffs
[20:15] Gadigan: Moderate at AOE debuffs and negative status effects
[20:15] Gadigan: Impaired: Deaf is one they're particularly good at inflicting
[20:15] Gadigan: Harmed in RP by Impaired: Mute, Suffocation, or anything else that would make it hard to play
[20:16] Gadigan: They're more able to be hampered by environments than some other weapon types
[20:16] Gadigan: But are good at being 'louder' - both literally and metaphorically, than other stuff people do, so they help with counterspells and overriding effects
[20:16] Gadigan: As long as the effects have a discrete source that is present and not insulated by an environmental something
[20:17] Gadigan: They're good in concert with one another - A bunch of people all using Instruments gain a bit of a bonus from working together
[20:17] Gadigan: On things that use the Instruments, not just in general
[20:17] Gadigan: They can boost MP
[20:18] Gadigan: And they can add effects to status effects, particularly minors
[20:18] Gadigan: They're also good at AOE helping with
[20:18] Gadigan: Minor positives
[20:18] Gadigan: Lots of subtrees
[20:18] Gadigan: Questions on Instruments?
[20:19] The One True Pathaky: Commenting to say that they're more multifaceted than I expected!
[20:19] Caelzeph: I don't think the MP-boosting has been shown much yet, but that's excellent news
[20:19] Gadigan: Glad to have provided the info on them, then!
[20:20] Caelzeph: (As Instrument is now the Doctor's best tree)
[20:20] The Nottest of Daves: Organs! They're keyboard-based, so they likely tilt Mind, but do they have anything else they're particularly good at?
[20:20] Caelzeph: Also on the buffs/debuffs thing, as that is also his thing.
[20:20] Celas: Synergize well with illusion/mental effects? (Pied piper, sirens, etc)
[20:21] The One True Pathaky: Flutes for Cultivation-Style stuff?
[20:21] Gadigan: Organs are good at synchronizing with magic in general
[20:21] Gadigan: Particularly Necromancy and Divine Magic
[20:21] Gadigan: They're less adept at switching between things quickly than other instruments
[20:21] Gadigan: But preparation can work to counteract that
[20:22] Celas: Haha, I was thinking about Cultivation-Flute, too. Strong impression from something I read.
[20:22] Gadigan: Illusion and Mental - Yes, specifically Enchantment, only moderate on Illusion itself, basically no on Psychic mental things as opposed to arcane mental things
[20:23] Gadigan: Cultivation as in making the land more bountiful, or self improvement through spiritual growth paired with martial arts?
[20:23] Caelzeph: I wonder if there's a Tacky-aspect with the Disco-tilt
[20:23] The One True Pathaky: The latter, haha
[20:23] Celas: The latter
[20:23] Gadigan: Apparently missed whatever the reference point for that one is - so right now, no, but if I end up reading/watching the whatever-it-is, it'll likely tilt yes
[20:24] Gadigan: Tacky can work with it. The synergy there starts more on Tacky's side, but it's present
[20:25] Celas: Aha, okay, that's good to know. ...also I keep forgetting about the Mind-affecting side of Enchanter as opposed to the Imbue-Magic side.
[20:25] The One True Pathaky: Haha, yeah, on the BA side it's pretty magical-createy
[20:25] The One True Pathaky: My Pathfinder Enchantress is full on the other side tho'
[20:26] The Nottest of Daves: Are there any classes of instruments (as opposed to specific examples that don't really generalize) that lend themselves toward Sciency-angles on things?
[20:27] The One True Pathaky: Theremin!
[20:27] Caelzeph: oooooOOOOOOooooOOOOOoo
[20:27] The One True Pathaky: and theoretically Synths
[20:27] Caelzeph: Turntable, perhaps
[20:27] Gadigan: Keyboard - It synergizes better with science / hypertech than the other subgroups mentioned above
[20:27] Gadigan: But isn't bound to that
[20:27] Gadigan: You don't have to use it for that
[20:27] Gadigan: I could see all of the ones those two mentioned working with it too
[20:27] Gadigan: Though they're not full subgroups yet

A Digression on Roy Belwoo wrote:[20:33] The Nottest of Daves: Is Roy Belwoo a musician? If so, what instrument does he use?
[20:34] The Nottest of Daves: XD
[20:35] Gadigan: Haha
[20:35] Gadigan: Roy Belwoo is a musician
[20:35] Gadigan: Among other things
[20:36] Gadigan: He can use a wide variety of instruments
[20:36] Gadigan: But mostly plays
[20:36] Gadigan: Waves directly
[20:36] Gadigan: Sound waves
[20:36] Gadigan: Light waves
[20:36] Gadigan: Radio waves
[20:36] Gadigan: Magical currents
[20:36] Gadigan: Etc
[20:36] Gadigan: He's a man who was able to add emoticons to a sound-only network, after all
[20:36] Caelzeph: Is he also a surfer
[20:36] Gadigan: He certainly can be
[20:37] Gadigan: He prefers motorcycles that go at the speed of light or faster, though
[20:37] The Nottest of Daves: This reminds me that I need to acquire a Lightspeed Motorcycle

[04:15] Gadigan: Anyone have a requested weapon type?
[04:16] Celas: Have we done Staff?
[04:16] Gadigan: I don't believe so
[04:16] Gadigan: Staff
[04:16] Gadigan: Class is Sage
[04:16] Celas: it seems fairly straightforward, (aside from the occasional "turn your staff into things" subtree)
[04:16] Celas: but I'm open to surprises!
[04:17] Gadigan: Wizard weapon in the CYOA version
[04:17] Caelzeph: (Staff. Class is Employer. Send legions of wage-servants at your foes)
[04:17] Gadigan: But notably, one of the most martial wizard weapons
[04:17] Gadigan: And one that almost verges on being a Monk weapon
[04:17] Gadigan: (Haha)
[04:17] Gadigan: It is good for both Melee and Magical Attacks
[04:17] Gadigan: Default tilt is slightly towards Magical
[04:17] Gadigan: But only somewhat
[04:17] Gadigan: The Magical side is good at synergizing with spellcasting
[04:18] Gadigan: With staffs having the ability to hold partially-cast spells and then launch them at foes later
[04:18] Gadigan: The melee half is good at deflection and channeling personal energy or spell energy into strikes
[04:18] Gadigan: So you can, assuming investment in one of the major subtrees, charge it with a spell, hit an enemy with it, and release the spell
[04:18] Gadigan: Or start a hit combo, release a spell into yourself mid attack, and use a wind-boost to get out of melee
[04:19] Gadigan: The staff carries a sense of knowledge with it
[04:19] Gadigan: But as opposed to the book, which focuses on personal knowledge
[04:19] Gadigan: The staff is good at imparting knowledge
[04:20] Gadigan: If someone is wielding a staff (and is skilled at it), they will have a bonus to teaching others magic/martial arts
[04:20] Gadigan: Or they can use it to command/discipline pets/students, but in a sense that is more long-term and less full-control than the whip would have
[04:21] Gadigan: The staff has moderate defensive ability
[04:21] Gadigan: And is good at extending reach
[04:21] Gadigan: Both in melee
[04:21] Gadigan: And in terms of spell range
[04:21] Gadigan: It doesn't make the spells wider
[04:21] Gadigan: But it makes them fire farther
[04:21] Gadigan: It can also be used in a straight-wizard manner, focusing on declarative, emphatic casting
[04:21] Gadigan: Questions on Staff?
[04:23] Celas: Huh. I mean, I included it on Niki's plan for reasons, but I'm still surprised.
[04:24] Celas: er, by the teacher aspect being that pronounced.
[04:26] Gadigan: nods
[04:26] Gadigan: Other questions? If none, other weapon types you'd like to see?
[04:26] Armocida: I finally got off my butt and went through Rukas sheet to find what manifestations he has xD and queued another
[04:27] Gadigan: Good to hear
[04:28] Celas: Wand, then, if you're up for another
[04:28] Gadigan: I am indeed
[04:28] Gadigan: Wand
[04:28] Celas: ah, I should have suggested checking the ability shop for those when you asked
[04:28] Gadigan: Class is Sorceress
[04:29] Gadigan: Wizard weapon in the CYOA format
[04:29] Gadigan: Specializes in magical attack speed
[04:29] Gadigan: Along with AOEs, particularly AOEs with negative status effects
[04:29] Gadigan: Good at being quick-drawn and swapped
[04:30] Gadigan: While some weapons punish you for cycling, Wands don't, so you can carry a caseload up the sleeves (metaphorically or literally) and swap between them mid-combat
[04:30] Gadigan: Accentuate the bond with a single pet/summon/familiar, but lose that aspect as more controlled beings are present
[04:31] Gadigan: That bonus doesn't extend to humaniform mortals unless the wielder can patch that gap with Enchantment
[04:31] Gadigan: Wands tend towards the offensive overall, but a full collection can include some defensive/utility ones
[04:31] Gadigan: Carrying more (different) wands benefits all wands lightly, so long as the power balance between them isn't too skewed
[04:31] Gadigan: So if you have a bunch of attack wands and spec in attack wands
[04:32] Gadigan: The sheer number of them will carry your personal wand-use thematics to the healing ones
[04:32] Gadigan: And improve your healing, even if you lack investment in Healer
[04:32] Gadigan: There's a Conductor sub-tree that synergizes with Musician/Bard allies and pets
[04:33] Gadigan: That's more explored in the CYOA version
[04:33] Gadigan: But it's there as a notable thing in the BA one still
[04:33] Gadigan: Synergy with Familiar
[04:33] Gadigan: Synergy with most elemental or arcane spell classes that boost status effects
[04:33] Gadigan: To the point at which they boost wand status effects even if it isn't using those elements/magic types
[04:34] Gadigan: Questions on Wand?
[04:35] Celas: Nothing particularly coming to mind!
[04:36] Gadigan: Another weapon type, then?
[04:36] Celas: Tool!
[04:36] Gadigan: Tool
[04:36] Gadigan: Class is Architect
[04:36] Gadigan: Rogue weapon in the CYOA version
[04:36] Gadigan: Uses Strength for Melee typically
[04:37] Gadigan: Tools are one of the more awkward-to-wield weapon groups as a whole and suffer from being heavily subtree dependent
[04:37] Gadigan: If you become good at Tools in general
[04:37] Gadigan: You actually become better at using and enhancing the properties of structures/constructed areas
[04:37] Gadigan: With only minor combat benefits compared to class investment
[04:37] Gadigan: To become good at Tool combat, you need to focus in one of the subtrees
[04:37] Gadigan: Like Drill or Scissors
[04:38] Gadigan: Which can have very different effects and focuses
[04:38] Gadigan: Drill is really good at defense piercing and leaving things 'open'
[04:38] Gadigan: Scissors are good at cutting through effects and restrictions and are one of the best weapons for breaking binding magic or litigamancy
[04:38] Gadigan: Both are good at cancelling armor abilities
[04:38] Gadigan: But in different ways and with different focuses
[04:39] Gadigan: Drills are good against heavy and grand armors
[04:39] Gadigan: Whereas scissors, unless you spec in the anti-tank scissors sub-subtree, would be better at fighting clothes or robes
[04:39] Gadigan: Wrenches are good at adjusting things and their properties - weakening enemies through debuffs and tuning up allies
[04:39] Gadigan: They have strong synergy with Vehicles, but also with other transformations in general
[04:39] Gadigan: As well as things with toggleable or settable settings
[04:40] Gadigan: If someone picks from a list of spell effects
[04:40] Gadigan: A wrench might, depending on investment and weapon qualities, be able to adjust it
[04:40] Gadigan: Good at both helping and harming Large Structures
[04:40] Gadigan: And with various groups of buffs and debuffs, varying by specific tool
[04:40] Gadigan: Questions on Tools?
[04:42] Celas: Crowbars?
[04:42] Celas: Or broaden that to "other notable subtrees?"
[04:43] Gadigan: Crowbars apply leverage and move things out of the way, they're good at stopping enemies from blocking attacks for each other, leaving openings for allies, and breaking down Abjuration magic. Synergize with Thief Arts, but make the Thief Arts start using STR instead of AGI. Also good against Aliens.
[04:44] Gadigan: No other notable subtrees immediately spring to mind, but I'm pretty sure they're out there.
[04:44] Celas: I've got a Shovel, apparently!
[04:45] Celas: also, hilariously, a spoon. But I rather doubt those have their own tree.
[04:45] Gadigan: Good at terrain manipulation, geomancy and counter-geomancy, constructing traps, locating treasure, resurrecting things, hiding traps (and other things), Synergy with Earth, Traps, Geomancy, Necromancy
[04:45] Gadigan: Shovel, that is
[04:46] Gadigan: Spoon probably has a smaller subtree, focused on synergy with Culinary Arts and Water/Acid. Probably works well to bridge Tool with Wand too
[04:46] Celas: Do they cross-class with Hammer?
[04:46] Celas: aha
[04:46] Gadigan: Yes, synergy between Tool and Hammer. Enough investment in both lets you start treating Hammers as a Tool subtree, even though they natively aren't, and lets you apply your tool and Large Structure benefits with them
[04:47] Gadigan: Spoon would probably also be somewhat good at handing out / transferring effects, like a limited melee Bailartix
[04:47] Gadigan: Spoon would synergize with Mentalist
[04:47] Caelzeph: Technique Ability: Here Comes The Aeroplane
[04:48] Gadigan: Haha
[04:48] Gadigan: Basically that, yes
[04:48] Gadigan: With the right setup, you could probably throw a spoon into the air and turn it into a literal plane
[04:48] Caelzeph: There's your new Cultivation angle, Celas. Flying Spoon.
[04:50] Caelzeph: Bit of a selfish one here, as I think I'm the only one who has it: Needle.
Specifically: Can it be used to extract/inject abilities? (I'm looking at the Murmur's aspect, here, which seems to suggest it can actually extract overcrashes, rp-wise)
[04:51] Gadigan: Needle
[04:51] Gadigan: Renamed Syringe in the CYOA version
[04:51] Gadigan: Class is Parasite
[04:51] Gadigan: Subweapon of Knife in the CYOA
[04:51] Gadigan: Which makes it a Rogue weapon
[04:51] Gadigan: Super-focus on Drain
[04:51] Gadigan: HP Drain foremost
[04:51] Gadigan: But drain of almost everything
[04:51] Gadigan: MP Drain
[04:51] Gadigan: Stat Drain
[04:52] Gadigan: It can remove properties or powers from things and put them in other things
[04:52] Gadigan: So yes, there's extracting and injecting ability potential there
[04:52] Gadigan: Though doing that long term would be harder and costly
[04:52] Gadigan: Since it isn't intended to be a long-term blue mage
[04:52] Gadigan: Synergy with Healer
[04:52] Gadigan: Synergy with Biomancy
[04:52] Gadigan: Synergy with Alchemy
[04:52] Gadigan: Can turn Healer offensive
[04:52] Gadigan: Synergy with Insect
[04:53] Gadigan: And works in conjunction with Mosquito-style face-needles and the like
[04:53] Caelzeph: Hm, maybe I should point the Doctor that way at some point...
[04:53] Gadigan: Some synergy with Undead, particularly Vampires
[04:53] Gadigan: Synergy with Acid
[04:53] Gadigan: And Toxin
[04:53] Gadigan: And Blood
[04:53] Gadigan: Good with minor status effects
[04:53] Gadigan: Moreso, but not only, negative
[04:53] Gadigan: Particularly good with Poison and Disease
[04:54] Gadigan: Out of the moderates, good with Bleeding and Dissolving
[04:54] Gadigan: There's a notable effect-innoculation subtree in there
[04:54] Gadigan: There's also an attack-numbing subtree that prevents counters (and in some cases, prevents those being attacked from knowing they're being attacked/killed at all)
[04:55] Gadigan: Some general synergy with Scientist type stuff, though it isn't itself a Scientist weapon
[04:55] Gadigan: Can melee with Agility
[04:55] Gadigan: Questions on Needle/Syringe?
[04:57] Caelzeph: Overlap with Thief?
[04:57] Caelzeph: For the stealing-things effect
[04:57] Caelzeph: Well, stealing-powers bit
[04:58] Gadigan: Yes, strong overlap with Thief
[04:58] Gadigan: Other questions?
[05:02] Caelzeph: I think that's it for my end
[05:02] Gadigan: Other weapon requests?
[05:03] Celas: well, since we're going nonbase now
[05:04] Celas: Fish and/or Keyring!
[05:04] Gadigan: Fish
[05:04] Gadigan: Class is Fisherman
[05:04] Gadigan: Not currently in the CYOA(edited)
[05:04] Gadigan: And may not move there
[05:04] Gadigan: Or may become Imaginary there
[05:05] Gadigan: Very weird, small class
[05:05] Gadigan: Fights with fish
[05:05] Gadigan: Synergy with Deadly Weapon
[05:05] Gadigan: And with Aquatics
[05:05] Gadigan: Seakeeper moreso than Slayer, but a mix of both
[05:05] Gadigan: Synergy with Chaos Magic
[05:05] Gadigan: Good at making attacks count as involving Aquatics
[05:05] Gadigan: Because you're hitting people with a fish
[05:06] Gadigan: Synergy with Water
[05:06] Gadigan: Good at summoning Aquatics when you hit things
[05:06] Gadigan: Has a connection to using specific round-numbers for boosted or altered effects
[05:06] Gadigan: Proccing off of the Chaos elements
[05:06] Gadigan: Trying to force those longer-term tends to eventually fail and turn the class worse for a while
[05:06] Gadigan: Some bonuses to sneak attacks when first used
[05:07] Gadigan: If you have a Swordfish, you can mix Sword stuff in
[05:07] Gadigan: Ditto with an Archerfish and a Bow
[05:07] Gadigan: On the cusp of being Imaginary (or a failed class?)
[05:07] Gadigan: But currently neither
[05:07] Gadigan: Things that boost those sorts of things could work on it to a point
[05:08] Gadigan: Questions on Fish?
[05:08] Celas: Hm, nope!
[05:09] Gadigan: Keyring
[05:09] Gadigan: Class is Keeper
[05:09] Gadigan: Subweapon of Focus in the CYOA version
[05:09] Gadigan: Makes it a Wizard weapon
[05:09] Gadigan: Heavy summon focus
[05:09] Gadigan: Good at summoning
[05:09] Gadigan: Even better with Eidolons and Fading Calls
[05:09] Gadigan: Can do Fading-Call-like basic attacks that summon things in to perform an attack as your own attack
[05:10] Gadigan: Good at opening things
[05:10] Gadigan: As well as locking things
[05:10] Gadigan: So it pierces defense and is good against Large Structures
[05:10] Gadigan: But is also good at enhancing Binding
[05:10] Gadigan: Mid-light synergy with Box
[05:10] Gadigan: Synergy with most entity types, planar ones moreso than non-planar
[05:10] Gadigan: Can sometimes lock-down abilities
[05:11] Gadigan: Good at unlocking things, freeing things, and effect removal too
[05:11] Gadigan: Can undo sealings on beings
[05:11] Gadigan: Make new things summons or eidolons that weren't previously
[05:11] Gadigan: Particularly if either unique and willing
[05:11] Gadigan: Or bound in a notable way for a while that the character subverted without brute forcing through
[05:11] Gadigan: Better at temporary summons than long-term ones
[05:12] Gadigan: Heavy initial boosts that taper off over time as summons linger and become more entities that are present than summoned things
[05:12] Gadigan: There's a subtree to put all the keys on one ring, combining weapons and stacking 'em in one slot, taking the best effects and versatility of all of them, but slowing wielder reaction time as they fumble with all the keys, with more investment in the tree reducing key-fumble
[05:13] Gadigan: Note that key-fumble is a metaphysical result of weapon-stacking, and normal sense-improving / fast-act / finesse abilities do little to help mitigate it
[05:13] Gadigan: Being a better Gatekeeper, and to a lesser extent investing deeply in a bunch of different planar entity classes, help much more
[05:13] Gadigan: There's a way in there
[05:14] Gadigan: Like how War Mage lets you actually wield spells as weapons
[05:14] Gadigan: For a keyring to get a summon or an eidolon into the second weapon slot
[05:14] Gadigan: Questions on Keyring?
[05:17] Celas: None from me
05:17] Caelzeph: (Queuing for next question: Stage)
[05:18] Celas: (also noting interest in Deadly Item and Card in case I go back to bed while I'm between painkiller doses here.)
[05:18] Celas: (actually yeah, I'm gonna go lie down again, I'm doing pretty bad sitting here)
[05:18] Celas: (thanks for the Q&A! I've had fun!)
[05:19] Gadigan: Hope you feel better soon, have a good night, glad you enjoyed it!
[05:20] Gadigan: Stage
[05:20] Gadigan: Class is Crossrealm Storyteller
[05:20] Gadigan: Not currently in the CYOA version
[05:20] Gadigan: Very abstandard weapon type
[05:20] Gadigan: That sets an overlaid battlefield as the weapon
[05:20] Gadigan: Very good at terrain control and manipulation
[05:20] Gadigan: Heavy synergy with Geomancer
[05:20] Gadigan: Synergy also with Outsider
[05:20] Gadigan: Attacks through events, terrain, and narrative
[05:21] Gadigan: Gives some control of reality's laws to the wielder
[05:21] Gadigan: As well as some control of narrative
[05:21] Gadigan: More powerful the more of a performance the wielder puts on
[05:21] Gadigan: Hard to use repeatedly for small battles, better with dramatic, limited conflicts
[05:21] Gadigan: Very bad weapon in dungeons
[05:21] Gadigan: But powerful against individuals who get caught off-guard
[05:22] Gadigan: Synergy with Bard and Dancer
[05:22] Gadigan: Some synergy with Ordeal, though getting both together running at enough tilt is a rough task
[05:22] Gadigan: Synergy with Illusion
[05:22] Gadigan: Can mix Illusion and Geomancy and make the result more hostile than either
[05:22] Gadigan: Good at manipulating and holding perception
[05:22] Gadigan: Also good at stalling things, so long as the show continues
[05:23] Gadigan: Suffers more from repetition than other weapon types
[05:23] Gadigan: But considers momentum highly important
[05:23] Gadigan: So you have to keep succeeding in different, inventive, showy ways
[05:23] Gadigan: It's a demanding weapon that requires a lot out of its wielder, but offers dynamic powers at a lower tier than reality warping would normally become available
[05:24] Gadigan: It is good at shielding the wielder and making them exist at the periphery of what is targetable while attacking
[05:24] Gadigan: So long as they keep the show up
[05:24] Gadigan: Good at summons
[05:24] Gadigan: Synergizes well with abstandard row formations
[05:24] Gadigan: Good at defense of non-summons while summons are up and 'on stage'
[05:24] Gadigan: Though you have to worry about repeated defeats of summons
[05:24] Gadigan: Creating negative momentum
[05:25] Gadigan: Because they're on stage, and you're not
[05:25] Gadigan: So if they're losing, your side is losing
[05:25] Gadigan: Even if you yourself are fine
[05:25] Gadigan: So you have to find a way to sell their loss as a win for your side to keep the stall going
[05:25] Gadigan: If you're using summons just to stall
[05:25] Gadigan: Otherwise you have to make a show of things while wearing down the opponent
[05:25] Gadigan: Or you can focus on controlling the stage while notable allies fight
[05:26] Gadigan: Which sometimes lets you get around group-battle restrictions a bit - not too often, it really depends on how strong the restrictions are and where they're coming from
[05:26] The One True Pathaky: What you're saying is Stage relies heavily on kayfabe
[05:26] Gadigan: Works with various different types of magic as long as they aren't too subtle
[05:26] Gadigan: So good with flashy bangs
[05:26] Gadigan: Bad with Enchantment that lacks sparkle
[05:27] Gadigan: Yes, kayfabe is very important here! Good term!
[05:27] The One True Pathaky: And that my next character should be Professional Wrestling Crosssrealms Storyteller
[05:27] Gadigan: Haha, excellent
[05:27] Gadigan: Other questions on Stage?
[05:27] The One True Pathaky: None so far
NEW
[05:28] Gadigan: Next up, then
[05:28] Gadigan: Card
[05:28] Gadigan: Class is Card Magus
[05:28] Gadigan: Class in the CYOA version is Dealer instead
[05:28] Gadigan: In the CYOA it's a subweapon of Focus
[05:29] Gadigan: But is a Rogue weapon on top of a Wizard one
[05:29] The One True Pathaky: Nole is, bizarrely, class name Card Magus
[05:29] Gadigan: It blends Spirit and Agility
[05:29] Gadigan: Magic and tricks
[05:29] The One True Pathaky: And I barely remember why(edited)
[05:29] Gadigan: It synergizes with Throwing Weapon almost as well as Focus
[05:29] Gadigan: Which is more important on the BA
[05:29] Gadigan: Because Throwing Weapon is on the BA
[05:29] Gadigan: And Focus currently isn't
[05:30] Gadigan: Heavy synergy with Arcanist Magic
[05:30] Gadigan: But also synergy with Divination and Thief Arts
[05:30] Gadigan: And Illusion
[05:30] Gadigan: Good at both hiding things and being used as a focus to reveal things
[05:30] Gadigan: Both in terms of divinatory magic
[05:30] Gadigan: And using subtle attacks
[05:30] Gadigan: To trigger enemy weaknesses
[05:30] Gadigan: Which then become obvious and exploitable
[05:31] Gadigan: Good at being re-elementalized
[05:31] Gadigan: Or changed/swapped out mid battle
[05:31] Gadigan: With cards, you can do literal and figurative sleight of hand
[05:31] Gadigan: Commitment to any one attack option is low with them
[05:31] Gadigan: They're also good at storing and mixing with spells
[05:31] Gadigan: Equip card weapons in spell slots to cast them into an attack
[05:32] Gadigan: Equip spells alongside card weapons to cast them as you throw the cards around
[05:32] Gadigan: They reduce the power of the spells they're with
[05:32] Gadigan: But allow for effect mixing
[05:32] Gadigan: They're more about fighting tricky
[05:32] Gadigan: Than fighting with strength
[05:32] Gadigan: They're a fairly uncommon weapon and don't have as much support as some other types
[05:32] Gadigan: But work well for specific types of builds
[05:33] Gadigan: Out of newer things, Moon is a boon for them
[05:33] Gadigan: Questions on Cards?
[05:33] Gadigan: Ah
[05:33] Gadigan: There's also deck sets
[05:33] Gadigan: Where you can take a bunch of card weapons that work together
[05:33] Gadigan: And mass equip/use them as a huge set
[05:33] Gadigan: It both widens your toolbox and locks down the range you can switch in
[05:33] Gadigan: Initially, at least
[05:34] Gadigan: You can then get abilities to cheat other cards into your sets
[05:34] Gadigan: And have completely different things in there benefitting from set bonuses
[05:34] Gadigan: Cards are also good at odds manipulation
[05:34] Gadigan: Or embracing randomness
[05:34] Gadigan: Power raised when you embrace the random
[05:34] Gadigan: Extra control with the other options
[05:35] Gadigan: Unlike most random-vs-luck builds, where you have to commit to one or the other
[05:35] Gadigan: Or you start hurting the power of both
[05:35] Gadigan: Card let you cheat
[05:35] Gadigan: And actually boost 'cheat' potential in general
[05:35] Gadigan: Questions?
[05:38] Gadigan: Assuming no
[05:38] Gadigan: Deadly Item
[05:38] Gadigan: Class is Slayer
[05:38] Gadigan: Subweapon of Trick Weapon in the CYOA
[05:39] Gadigan: It deals mainly with random objects that aren't in other weapon groups
[05:39] Gadigan: Which is a fairly narrow field
[05:39] Gadigan: And improvised weapons
[05:39] Gadigan: It also offers boosts
[05:39] Gadigan: To other trick weapons
[05:39] Gadigan: Other things with high crit rates
[05:39] Gadigan: And any weapons that are weird
[05:39] Gadigan: With weirder weapons getting more boost
[05:39] Gadigan: So a wand gets basically nothing, since it's fairly standard and not crit focused
[05:40] Gadigan: Sword gets a tiny bit, since it has crit potential, but is the most bog standard weapon out there
[05:40] Gadigan: Knife gets more than sword since it is actively crit focused, but still common
[05:40] Gadigan: A Teapot or billard ball Orb paired with a cue-stick Staff would get a lot, though
[05:41] Gadigan: Since you're fighting with seemingly non-weapon objects
[05:41] Gadigan: The main focus of the class is crit-boosting
[05:41] Gadigan: Which pairs with high-damage strikes
[05:41] Gadigan: Good at killing things, bad at defending and attrition
[05:41] Gadigan: Focus on the 'deadly'
[05:41] Gadigan: Synergy with Assassin in that
[05:42] Gadigan: Good at taking decor and using it as a weapon
[05:42] Gadigan: Which can counter and redivert Geomancy and enemy-favoring feng-shui
[05:42] Gadigan: Though you have to make sure they don't just resist/absorb their own decor
[05:42] Gadigan: Which is a risk in some cases
[05:42] Gadigan: Wide variety of potential things in there
[05:42] Gadigan: Lots of subtrees
[05:42] Gadigan: But most are shallow outside of the main ones
[05:43] Gadigan: Or single-item-specific
[05:43] Gadigan: Which is a kind of crazy degree of focus
[05:43] Gadigan: Like not even 'attack with a calendar' (which is in there)
[05:43] Gadigan: That's a subtree
[05:43] Gadigan: But it's limited
[05:43] Gadigan: If you want to expand it
[05:43] The One True Pathaky: Synergy with Boats
[05:43] Gadigan: It's 'Attack with this particular year's puppies and sunsets calendar'
[05:43] The One True Pathaky: Well, that's what I'm pushing
[05:43] The One True Pathaky: Eva hits people with boats
[05:43] Gadigan: Yes, haha, boats are a weird enough weapon type that they fit in here!
[05:43] Gadigan: Questions on Deadly Items?
[05:44] The One True Pathaky: Nah it sounds like I understand it decently
[05:44] Gadigan: Good to hear
[05:44] The One True Pathaky: High crit, bad on defense
[05:44] Gadigan: Yes
[05:44] The One True Pathaky: Good at improvising
[05:44] Gadigan: Correct
[05:45] The One True Pathaky: Broadly usable but hard to specialize in as far as other classes disciplines are
[05:46] Gadigan: Yes
[05:46] The One True Pathaky: (I'm getting a little loopy over here on my end, so my feedback may be less jointed)
[05:49] Gadigan: Quite understandable
[05:49] Gadigan: It's getting late
[05:49] Gadigan: You have anything else you want to hear about tonight
[05:49] Gadigan: Either for weapons or Ascensions?

Boxes wrote:[14:01] Gadigan: Boxes
[14:01] Gadigan: Class is Boxmeister
[14:01] Gadigan: Not currently in the CYOA version
[14:01] Gadigan: Magical attack based
[14:01] Gadigan: But can run on unusual stats
[14:01] Gadigan: Or attack with things like Defense sometimes
[14:01] Gadigan: Not all the time
[14:01] Gadigan: Most of the time it's normal
[14:02] Gadigan: But it has a greater chance of veering than most weapon groups
[14:02] Gadigan: Good at holding in terrible things in
[14:02] Gadigan: Both to attack with / utilize
[14:02] Gadigan: And to seal stuff up
[14:02] Gadigan: So it's good at both Voidstruck and Sealed
[14:02] Gadigan: Good at variants of the Stat Drain status effect
[14:02] Gadigan: Good at summoning
[14:02] Gadigan: Good at eating summons
[14:02] Gadigan: Sometimes to power things
[14:02] Gadigan: Typically has restrictions on some of its powers, like 'you can only do this so often or it doesn't work / breaks / releases something awful that's fighting you'
[14:03] Gadigan: Synergy with Horrors
[14:03] Gadigan: And Teapots
[14:03] Gadigan: Good at breaking gear - monsters that pop out of boxes have much better odds than most things of perma-breaking gear
[14:03] Gadigan: Boxes tend towards only emitting negative effects - or being used as the foci for negative effects
[14:04] Gadigan: But typically have their own negative effects rather than relying on standard ones
[14:04] Gadigan: So there's a wealth of weird negatives in the category
[14:04] Gadigan: There's a subtree for pulling stuff in
[14:04] Gadigan: Chewing it up / doing damage over time while fake-eating things
[14:04] Gadigan: And then spitting it out
[14:04] Gadigan: Possibly alongside a box-controlled clone
NEW
[14:04] Gadigan: Or a temporarily controlled evil clone that goes and does its own thing after the battle
[14:05] Gadigan: Boxmeisters are also good at spoofing summons and having them either not do stuff or trigger things without being there to catch effects or turning into negative effects instead of real entities when attacked
[14:06] Gadigan: Boxmeisters are good at being an ominous threat that most people wouldn't want to fight, but lack in staying power in prolonged, in-the-open series of conflicts, as trying to keep using their powers over time loses control and piles negative effects and side effects on the Boxmeister
[14:06] Gadigan: Powerful when focusing their anger and willing to deal with some side effects, though
[14:06] Gadigan: Questions?
[14:07] The Nottest of Daves: I noticed looking at the Keyring description from last night that they apparently work well with Boxes, but is that a one-directional synergy?
[14:07] Kitsune106: Any syngeries with warlocks or curses?
[14:09] Gadigan: Box helps Keyring more than Keyring helps Box - it gives something to summon through the Keyring, and the keyring-dominant summoning is better at repeated summons and avoiding the negative side effects that the just-Box-based summoning, loses some of the super-attack, but allows for longer use
[14:09] Gadigan: Yes, synergy with Dark Magic and curses
[14:09] Gadigan: Particularly applying them
[14:09] Gadigan: May get them as some of the use side-effects
[14:10] Gadigan: Other questions?
[14:10] The Nottest of Daves: This one's a little weird
[14:11] The Nottest of Daves: but say someone was fighting inside a warehouse full of shipping crates or something like that
[14:11] The Nottest of Daves: Could someone with enough grounding in Boxmeister use a random crate to pull off some Box-specific effect?
[14:11] Kitsune106: Terriab spell warehouse of boxes
[14:11] Gadigan: Yes, they would be able to with enough investment there
[14:11] Gadigan: Doubly so if they were invested in Slayer
[14:11] Gadigan: Because it would be improvised boxes
[14:12] The Nottest of Daves: Excellent
[14:12] The Nottest of Daves: My dream of having a Jackie Chan style fight through a fish market isn't impossible XD
[14:12] Armocida: Might be worth it for Ruka to invest in Boxes
[14:13] The Nottest of Daves: He's got an Artifact Box
[14:13] The Nottest of Daves: he should do that

Polearms wrote:[14:13] Gadigan: Polearm
[14:13] Gadigan: Class is Dragoon
[14:13] Gadigan: Warrior weapon in the CYOA
[14:14] Gadigan: Good at giving melee mobility and reach
[14:14] Gadigan: Has a strong focus in jump-attacks that can hit the back row for full damage and get around guard attempts
[14:14] Gadigan: Including ones that can be charged up for better impact
[14:14] Gadigan: Good at striking through lines or around counters
[14:15] Gadigan: Good at breaking wards or attacking while mitigating aura effects, though it doesn't fully overcome either
[14:15] Gadigan: Good at attacks that evade enemy defenses in general, without directly piercing/opening/breaking them
[14:15] Gadigan: brb
[14:51] Gadigan: Continuing
[14:51] Gadigan: Polearm synergizes very well with Spear
[14:52] Gadigan: Good at charge attacks
[14:52] Gadigan: Both in the sense of running forward and attacking
[14:52] Gadigan: And in the sense of building up power and striking
[14:52] Gadigan: Most of its better elemental moves involve charge time
[14:53] Gadigan: Not defensively focused, but the mobility boosts can be used to defensive ends, so it isn't actually a weapon that weakens defenses
[14:53] Gadigan: Questions?
[14:53] Kitsune106: Any specialized subtrees? As might send celery down a few
[14:54] Gadigan: Essentially every class has specialized subtrees
[14:54] Gadigan: The main ones in Dragoon include
[14:54] Gadigan: Jumping and jump attacks
[14:54] Gadigan: Charge attacks
[14:54] Gadigan: Rush attacks
[14:54] Gadigan: Polearm size manipulation
[14:54] Gadigan: Elemental moves - connects to the charge tree
[14:54] Gadigan: The charge tree actually connects to several of the others
[14:55] Gadigan: Defense breaking
[14:55] Gadigan: Anti-mage combat that specs against wards and auras
[14:55] Kitsune106: Cool
[14:55] Gadigan: There's a horse/rider subtree
[14:55] Gadigan: For being a mounted dragoon
[14:55] Gadigan: There's a mercenary subtree that boosts stuff while you're doing stuff for pay, that one synergizes a bit with the mounted and a bit with some Gunner stuff
[14:56] Gadigan: There's a dragon-riding subtree
[14:56] Gadigan: There's a subtree focusing on using less-common polearm types to bypass resistances that they shouldn't
[14:56] Gadigan: There's a subtree that mixes halberds with axes and lets you use some Ravager stuff with it
[14:57] Gadigan: There's a town guard subtree that helps with defending settlements but is low-powered
[14:57] Gadigan: There's a Nexus-related subtree that synchronizes with a particular Disc's defense forces that boosts the town guard subtree to something with dimensional banishment effects
[14:57] Gadigan: There's a subtree that focuses on two-handed weapons and boosts them in general
[14:57] Gadigan: There's more, but that's an assortment of them to start with
[14:58] Kitsune106: fair. i think i will be going down a few then.
[14:58] Kitsune106: and thank you
[15:00] Gadigan: You're welcome
[15:00] Gadigan: Other questions?
[15:00] Kitsune106: none from me.

Ordeals, with a Digression on Moon wrote:[15:01] Gadigan: Ordeal
[15:01] Gadigan: Class is Arbiter of Trials
[15:01] Gadigan: Not yet in the CYOA version
[15:02] Gadigan: An Ordeal is a method of testing reality and its inhabitants
[15:02] Gadigan: It is a trial to be overcome, or that can destroy things the wielder deems unworthy
[15:02] Gadigan: They are good at creating sub-battles
[15:02] Gadigan: Frequently with amendments to the laws of reality
[15:02] Gadigan: They have an ability to act as a force from outside most realities
[15:02] Gadigan: And therefore synergize with Outsider
[15:02] Gadigan: And are more difficult than many things to resist or get out of
[15:03] Gadigan: Without going through / surviving / passing
[15:03] Gadigan: They're good at applying environmental conditions of their own creation to things
[15:03] Gadigan: But less so outside ones
[15:03] Gadigan: Unless that is their sole focus
[15:03] Gadigan: Each has a bit of story to it
[15:03] Gadigan: But is moreso focused on a force, difficulty, or situation
[15:03] Gadigan: Which can be manipulated and leveraged against things
[15:03] Gadigan: Most are focused against specific people
[15:04] Gadigan: But others can be focused against cities, civilizations, or worlds
[15:04] Gadigan: They can have phases
[15:04] Gadigan: And change focus across the phases
[15:04] Gadigan: Sometimes one after another in a string
[15:04] Gadigan: Sometimes in a cycle, but the cyclic versions would have something in there to break the cycle
[15:04] Gadigan: And there's the catch
[15:05] Gadigan: Ordeals are things that can, at least by the worthy, be beaten
[15:05] Gadigan: They are, natrually, optimal up to a point
[15:05] Gadigan: And they can be optimized against weaker things
[15:05] Gadigan: But they can't be fully optimized against even-power things
[15:05] Gadigan: There has to be a way for something conceivable to win for it to be an ordeal
[15:05] Gadigan: And not just a deathtrap or pronouncement of death
[15:06] Gadigan: And once something does survive past a point
[15:06] Gadigan: Or 'win'
[15:06] Gadigan: It becomes much, much more resistant
[15:06] Gadigan: Not just against the Ordeal
[15:06] Gadigan: But against anything the wielder throws at it
[15:06] Gadigan: Surviving combat against a unique Ordeal wielder or a unique Ordeal can actually give the opponent new powers or powersets
[15:06] Gadigan: It's hard to kill the wielder while the Ordreal is going on, though
[15:07] Gadigan: It boosts whatever defenses they have, with the boosts eroding as the Ordeal is overcome
[15:07] Gadigan: So it's very good against things that require quick wins to be effective
[15:07] Gadigan: Since it is most defensive at the start
[15:07] Gadigan: It synergizes with armor, physical toughness via Monk, elemental embodiment to resist things, wards, auras, stealth, whatever defense is going on
[15:07] Gadigan: And boosts it
[15:08] Gadigan: It doesn't tend to give new defenses
[15:08] Gadigan: Except a resistance to conceptual attacks while active
[15:08] Gadigan: That's on the wielder, though, not on the elements of the ordeal
[15:08] Gadigan: Which may work on unreal mechanics
[15:08] Gadigan: But can still be messed with to a point
[15:08] Gadigan: Ordeals synergize with Stages, but it's hard to get into both enough for that synergy to come into play
[15:08] Gadigan: Outsiders are better at wielding them
[15:09] Gadigan: But planar things in general have a bit of a bonus
[15:09] Gadigan: Excrucians are a bit of a reference point for them, but not the only one
[15:09] Gadigan: There's also elements of religious trials and stories of judgments, whether survived or ending in devastation
[15:09] Gadigan: There's synergy with Law, but also a bit with Chaos, since they abide by rules, but the rules are internal and tend to ignore external laws
[15:10] Gadigan: Questions on Ordeals?
[15:10] The Nottest of Daves: Given that they weaken against opponents of equal level
[15:10] The Nottest of Daves: I suppose they're probably even weaker against things over your level?
[15:11] Gadigan: Mmmm.
Yes but no on that first part. Let me try to explain it again.
[15:11] Gadigan: They don't weaken against same-level stuff
[15:11] Gadigan: They can't be fully optimized against it
[15:11] Gadigan: As in, you have to leave a hole in the build somewhere
[15:12] Gadigan: The parts that aren't that hole maintain strength
[15:12] Gadigan: But on that second part
[15:12] Gadigan: It's fairly true
[15:12] Gadigan: Ordeals are bad against things that are stronger than you
[15:12] Gadigan: They're the weapon of something from on high or outside
[15:12] Gadigan: That comes down to pass judgment and put mortals or native spirits or the world's ruling principal powers
[15:12] Gadigan: To the test
[15:13] Gadigan: They attack from a position of self-made authority
[15:13] Gadigan: And if you're weaker than things, that authority is much harder to call on
[15:13] Gadigan: Does that help clarify?
[15:13] The Nottest of Daves: Indeed
[15:13] Gadigan: Good to hear
[15:13] Gadigan: Other questions?
[15:14] The Nottest of Daves: Do they work well alongside any other particular weapon types than Stages?
[15:16] Gadigan: Forces, a bit. More than a little, but not enough to say moderate on.
There'd be applications alongside a lot of things, Keyring, Mace, and Scythe, for instance, though none of them are really specced in direct, broad synergies with it.
[15:17] The Nottest of Daves: Does it have any Moon tie-ins for working in phases/cycles?
[15:18] Gadigan: Not really, no. You could build a character build that does that, and it'd likely work pretty well, but that's not inherent to the class
[15:19] Gadigan: To expand on rationale there
[15:19] Gadigan: Moon orbits things or is in reflection to things
[15:20] Gadigan: Making it a secondary part of a system, or a reflection of the system
[15:20] Gadigan: Ordeals are either at the top of the system, or outside the system
[15:20] Gadigan: So they don't fit the same structural space
[15:20] Gadigan: Even if they both do cycles
[15:20] Gadigan: As I said, it could work
[15:20] Gadigan: And it could work well
[15:20] Gadigan: They just lack natural links
[15:21] Gadigan: Ah, and to expand on the expansion
[15:21] Gadigan: Ordeal cares about its place in a metaphysical hierarchy
[15:21] Gadigan: Moon has one by default and can play off it
[15:21] Gadigan: But doesn't care about it in the same way
[15:21] Gadigan: You can move Moon and it can still work
[15:21] Gadigan: Moving Ordeal is rougher