Mechanics Q&A

[Lord Gadigan]

This is the mechanics-half of the now-split Q&A thread from the old forum. Setting questions go in the other one down in Key Setting Info.

[Lord Gadigan]

Q: If Zwei is in a Gad-Quest, in a Mod-run quest, and his month of character-ness ends, I'd presume he'd stay in and revert to an item if it wasn't restarted by time he was out?

A: Yes.

[Lord Gadigan]

Q: If he does time out in-quests, can Vashna take the sword into battle?

A: Yes.

[Lord Gadigan]

Q: Also, how does that whole mess work with the "Don't modify/level your items when they're in threads" bit?

A: Hrgurkrh.

Let's treat Zwei in PC-mode as a PC for this, but his sword-self as an item. So don't mess with sword-mode while it's in things that other items couldn't be altered in.

[Lord Gadigan]

Q: I know we now have a rule statting element-less attacks are Null. But it strikes me odd since I want to say I heard you say something about Null sucking and every elemental resistance applying to that. I've never seen any such claim mirrored in rules though. Did that get changed?

A: That was a rule at one point. It vanished in the great rule-vanishing where all of the hundreds of odd sub-rules I made that never got posted that I only told one or two mods about got wiped out. That is not a current rule, though it may show back up at some point.

[Lord Gadigan]

Q: If I have two things that make my attack solely one element, can I choose?

A: Probably not. Use effect precedence and figure out the timing of which gets applied first. If they both apply simultaneously, it's going into random-for-the-thread mode.

[Lord Gadigan]

Q: How would resistance against an entity of an element as opposed to the element itself be phrased?

A: For what I think you're going for "15% Resistance against Fire-element entities" or something like that.

[Lord Gadigan]

Q: How does Lockdown Time act with:
Puissance- Possessor may select 5 abilities and 2 Constant Effects from lower-level individuals on the enemy list that are normally combatable for drops that are not also named 'Puissance', Possessor gains these abilities and effects, Constant Effect

A: Let's quote Lockdown Time here so that we can see what it does next to Puissance.

Lockdown Time:
Lockdown Time!- (Passive Ability, Haxxor) Possessor may, at the beginning of each round, choose one Constant Effect possessed by each non-unique opponent who is not 20 or more Levels greater than possessor and remove its text until the beginning of the next round as a non-stacking debuff, Possessor's Time element opponents who are below Level 80 have their turn-order-determining stat sums halved, rounded down


Well, as they stand, we can't answer that question. Puissance lacks timing. It's either failing to trigger or triggering all over the place and giving way too many abilities. Neither of these is its intended effect. Let's correct that.

New Puissance:
Puissance- Possessor may, at the beginning of the thread, select 5 abilities and 2 Constant Effects from lower-level individuals on the enemy list that are normally combatable for drops that are not also named 'Puissance', Possessor gains these abilities and effects, This ability and effect gain does not stack, Constant Effect

Puissance is going to be triggering and giving the entity those effects and abilities before Lockdown Time (which is start-of-round). They are, apparently, buffs (this wasn't intended, but neither was the exact staggering degree of Puissance's power). I could change the wording to remove their status as buffs, but I don't think that's really required at the moment.

So Lockdown Time can turn off the Constant Effects granted to the individual by Puissance, but turning off Puissance itself doesn't do much.

[Lord Gadigan]

(10:53:57 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) That thread makes me think of 2 questions
(10:54:04 PM) lordgadigan: Go ahead and post 'em
(10:54:14 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) 1)Are there currently methods to damage Max HP?
(10:54:35 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) 2)How would Max HP damage be written?
(10:54:47 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (scamper922) 1) Sacrifice, roflcopter
(10:55:13 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (scamper922) seriously though, my follow up on that, would defense apply?
(10:55:47 PM) lordgadigan: I don't think there are methods to Damage it out yet. I think there's debuffs that hit it, though.
Either 'Deals # Flat <Element> element Max HP Damage' or 'Deals Max HP Damage'
(10:55:49 PM) lordgadigan: Sacrifice?
(10:56:19 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) then, third question
(10:56:23 PM) lordgadigan: Sacrifice- (Active Ability, Attack) Based on all stats added together. Uses Melee Attack bonus, Magical Attack bonus, and Ranged attack bonus. This action costs an amount of HP to perform equal to (User's Max HP) in additional to any other costs. Does double normal damage. Cannot critical. Never misses. Hits all foes. This attack's element is the user's element if none of the user's equipped items give a Magical Attack bonus, a Ranged Attack bonus, or a Melee Attack bonus. Otherwise, this attack possesses the elements of all items the user has equipped that provide a Magical Attack bonus, a Ranged Attack bonus, or a Melee Attack bonus. May only be used once per battle.

That's not dealing Max-HP Damage. That's costing HP as a cost.
(10:56:33 PM) lordgadigan: Defense doesn't apply to paying costs
(10:56:35 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) 3)Would Max HP Damage do anything to the current HP?
(10:56:51 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) i.e.
(10:56:53 PM) lordgadigan: Only if it would take current HP below Max HP
(10:57:03 PM) lordgadigan: In which case it would lower it to that amount
(10:57:11 PM) lordgadigan: Unless an effect was keeping someone's current HP above their Max HP
(10:57:46 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) so if a Vashna with a Max HP of 7777 and a current HP of 42 eats a Dread Sherbet which does 1 Max HP Damage, his current HP stays 42?
(10:57:55 PM) lordgadigan: Yes
(10:58:05 PM) [yogurtrunsfreenow]: (fruedestruction) k
(10:58:21 PM) lordgadigan: I think Max HP Damage also wouldn't be affected by Defense since there isn't a ruling as to defense applying to it yet
(10:58:29 PM) lordgadigan: I'm going to post this bit in that question thread

[Lord Gadigan]

Q: I was doing some fight-thinking today, and realized that the rules update referenced here: viewtopic.php?p=99814#p99814 makes any of the level-reducing Traits abilities rather...less than stellar. The stats and bonuses that the Traits give don't seem to (In my mind, at least.) balance out the unblockable, unhealable, undodgeable damage that we get in exchange.

Is this part of the trade-off, or an unintended side-effect?

Additional Post: Regarding the above question: I'd say they're something that could be considered useless at higher levels. At level 10, sure, go for it. At level 59, you're losing 30 levels and this sorely effects what you're able to fight.

Additional Post: On the note of that particular rules update, I think the Multi-Hit fix is serious overkill. 1% - 5% is fair enough, 10% is harsh but workable. 25% ruins just about any multi-hit attack that isn't an auto-hit (well, you can probably get two hits in, beyond that it's extremely dicey. Considering that multi-hit attacks generally have reduced damage to begin with and (due to another rule update), have virtually no chance of inflicting status effects past the second hit or so, it's really too much. Not to mention that, if we look at it realistically, if someone is hit once, they're probably be more likely to get hit again (seeing fighting game combo systems).

Additional Post: I think it's intended to represent things being harder for us to aim- see: full auto guns, recoil, vision-obscuring light shows, DBZ's always-ineffective rapid fire blasting, gundams dodging between missile spam, etc etc.

That said, yes- What JTL said. Draconics and I have been saying this since it hit the updates thread. I've got numbers to back it up. And it's also completely against the spirit of the nerfs- only to affect things significantly higher than your level. It doesn't do that. It makes multi-hit attacks miss low level enemies as much as high level enemies. In combination with the damage division that they nearly universally have on them, it removed the mechanic as a viable option (excepting when you have a way to make them autohit.) I really feel like must be a better way to do this.

The good news is that it's just as crippling to enemies as it is to us, effectively nullifying a whole bunch of enemies' meaner tricks.

Actually, I'd like to call into question the necessity of this nerf, considering the recent adjustment to status effect inflictions. There are some things that are still over the top if allowed to function (10-100 hits against all, heh), but the impact of this has been broader than would seem intended and the main use of them (ensuring your Major status effects hit) has been removed. Please consider it.

Repeating this for emphasis and highlighting. I was helping him with a battle strategy when I thought of this, and DAMN. I know there's supposed to be abilities in those trees to reduce the level division at some point and to some degree, (because immunities) but- damn, again. Can trait division just be ignored for the purposes of those? Take your "true" level for that?

Additional Post: The Multi-hit is wonky, I think most of the points I'd have made are already here, so I won't touch that.

A: Unintended side effect. I think I'll make some ability to mitigate that. You'll have to buy it as an ability, but it'll be a reasonably-obtainable thing for people with the traits.

[Lord Gadigan]

This is kind of mechanics, kind of setting, but since it deals with a mechanical process, I'm putting it here.

The topic is Worshipper Benefits for PC Deities-

[7:44 PM] Kitsune106: or do they get all teh benefits regardless of what i desire?
[7:45 PM] Gadigan: No, you can control what they get
[7:45 PM] Gadigan: You actually can choose the conditionals and only hand some out as quest rewards if you want to
[7:45 PM] Gadigan: Or at set Levels
[7:45 PM] Gadigan: Or act like a shop
[7:45 PM] Gadigan: You're also the one in charge of deciding whether they count as violating tenets and lose them or not
[7:46 PM] Gadigan: There are some exceptions - certain divine-magic-manipulation/excommunication builds can screw with things, as can Saretian-related stuff and other rare exceptions
[7:46 PM] Gadigan: But by and large, you're in control of them
[7:46 PM] Kitsune106: ah. cool. i'll see about setting that up then.
[7:46 PM] Gadigan: I may post the explanation of that on the site so that it's clearer

[The Nottest of Daves]

On non-Planetaries getting Planetary Deific Domains from the Warehouse

18:17] The Nottest of Daves: Question- is that ability meant to be in Worldbound God?
[18:17] The Nottest of Daves: (Since Dulcinea didn't get her deity effect from Planetary)
[18:20] Gadigan: It is, yes. Most deities can pull stuff from a standard set of Domains that are in the Planetary class in addition to their own subtype-specific ones.
[18:20] The Nottest of Daves: Ahhh
[18:20] Gadigan: You can post this in the thread so that it's confirmed on-site and doesn't come up again later
NEW
[18:20] Gadigan: Since I figure that's ripe for something someone sees as an odd bit later down the line

[Lord Gadigan]

[9:21 PM] Santooth: So, the Wisdom Pyre artifact has something really weird going on with its modifiers, specifically and not as an error. It's modifier was x13 (I saw it got boosted), but after it passed a cap the remaining levels all became x1 up to the next cap (so, 60 was x13, but 61-79 were x1). 'Course, when it hit 80 it went up to x99 or something so it's give and take
[9:22 PM] Santooth: Was wondering if that got wiped in the reset
[9:22 PM] Gadigan: Hrm
[9:23 PM] Gadigan: I'm going with it being at its base modifier on all levels except cap-breaks now
[9:23 PM] Gadigan: With cap breaks being per the cap break thread
[9:23 PM] Gadigan: But this not going backwards to levels it already has
[9:23 PM] Gadigan: So it isn't losing levels or anything
[9:24 PM] Santooth: So its weird modifier is just gone now, and it works like other artifacts (other than the shitty mana-hungry ones)
[9:24 PM] Gadigan: Yes
[9:24 PM] Santooth: Ok, thanks for clarifying
[9:25 PM] Gadigan: You're welcome
[9:25 PM] Gadigan: Thank you for seeking the clarification
[9:25 PM] Santooth: I need to post this somewhere, or does just giving this chat segment to celas and letting him take care of it work?
[9:26 PM] Gadigan: I'll post it for official records so it's on the site. The other could work, but then we'd wonder about it years down the line

[The Nottest of Daves]

[19:54] Ordo Hereticus: I wanted to double check something with you before Ryuutarou's Knives post for April goes through
[19:54] Ordo Hereticus: *Recipe Book of the Paramount Chef- (Item Aspect: Knives of the Paramount Chef, Resource, Glory & Wonder, X Gold) Possessor may create up to 2,000 Food or Drink consumables that are worth under 400,000,000 Gold that are for sale in the Shop each month by posting in the Shop and declaring which such consumables possessor is making
[19:55] Ordo Hereticus: does that intend for the total sum of value of all items to be less than 400,000,000 Gold, or each individual item is less than 400,000,000 Gold?
[19:56] Gadigan: Each individual item in this case
[19:56] Gadigan: You can post this on the site as a clarification

[Lord Gadigan]

[7:21 PM] The One True Pathaky: "and possessor's listed Damage values are multiplied by 3 as an effect that does not stack with any othe effect that multiplies possessor's listed damage values,"
[7:21 PM] The One True Pathaky: Can I get a clarification on what count as listed Damage values?
[7:21 PM] The One True Pathaky: I have a weird edge-case with some of my gear
[7:22 PM] The One True Pathaky: -- Harness Global Lifeflow- (Spell, Healer Magic, 3,000,000 MP, Life, 300,000,000 Gold) Caster gains a non-stacking buff that increases quantities of HP Healing its possessor deals by 3,000,000, Caster must be Level 60 or greater and must possess the ability 'Adept Healer Magic Attunement'
[7:23 PM] The One True Pathaky: -- *Caduceus of the Rat King- (Weapon, Mace, Darkness, 315,000,000 Gold) +310,000 Melee Attack, +310,000 Magical Attack, Wielder may choose for actions that wielder performs that would contain 'Heals' to not do so, Wielder may convert any stat buff that wielder would apply into an equal-but-opposite debuff that stacks an equal number of times, 15% inflicts Plague
[7:23 PM] The One True Pathaky: Global Lifeflow increases healing by 3 million, theoretically Rat-King makes it not healing
[7:24 PM] The One True Pathaky: does that 3,000,000 get multiplied?
[7:33 PM] The Nottest of Daves: no
[7:33 PM] The Nottest of Daves: that's not a listed damage value
[7:34 PM] The Nottest of Daves: Listed Damage Values are from enemy-style abilities
[7:35 PM] The One True Pathaky: Solely and specifically for enemy-style abilities?
[7:35 PM] The One True Pathaky: What about quantities of flat damage I have from abilities?
[7:35 PM] The Nottest of Daves: I sure would like it to apply to those
[7:37 PM] The Nottest of Daves: I suppose it's not quite as clear as I thought it was last time I looked into it, but the only instance of the phrase "listed damage value" in the rules is in the damage calculation formula for enemies
[7:38 PM] The Nottest of Daves: 3. The Randomized Attribute Sum is added to the listed Damage value of the ability used for the attack, making a value called the Damage Dealt.
[7:42 PM] The Nottest of Daves: though HP Healing is also something distinct in the rules from HP Damage, so Harness Global Lifeflow may end up targeting an invalid effect and fizzling if you use the effect from Caduceus of the Rat King anyway
[7:43 PM] The Nottest of Daves: we shall need The Gadigan to make a final pronouncement
[7:43 PM] Caelzeph: All Glory to His Chin
[11:58 PM] Santooth: Flat damage (whether on its own or as an addition to an attack) seems to me like it would count as a listed damage value on a PC
[11:59 PM] Santooth: I'm not sure sure about the "HP Healing" vs "Heals" distinction. I'm inclined to think those were intended to be the same thing and just fell prey to Too Many Keywords syndrome.
[11:59 PM] Gadigan: No on that last one
[12:00 AM] Gadigan: Heals turns any damage associated with the attack to healing if it's on an attack
[12:00 AM] Gadigan: So if it deals HP Damage, MP Damage, and CON Damage
[12:00 AM] Gadigan: It turns into HP Healing, MP Healing, and CON Healing
[12:00 AM] Santooth: Sure. My impression has always been "heals" has been an additional modifier stuck on attacks/damage/etc.
[12:00 AM] Santooth: So, that one spell increases damage done by 3 mil <if> it heals
[12:01 AM] Gadigan: I'll consider the listed damage thing. If I don't post about it soon, this can move to the mechanical questions thread
[12:01 AM] Santooth: Then you could turn around and flip the whole attack around to being damaging with the caduceus by removing the "Healing" bit
[12:01 AM] Gadigan: Right, Harness Global Lifeflow only increases already-existing HP Healing
[12:01 AM] Gadigan: If you had the right order of effects you could do something like that
[12:02 AM] Gadigan: I'm not convinced you can actually do that with just the two items there
[12:02 AM] Gadigan: I'd have to look at the steps of combat and order of effects
[12:02 AM] Santooth: Can you choose that, or is that hard coded into things? This is mechanically complex.
[12:02 AM] Gadigan: But that second one is worded to make a whole action lose Heals
[12:02 AM] Gadigan: And the bonus healing feels like it would get applied in one of the attack damage calculation steps
[12:02 AM] Santooth: In RP, at least, would you be able to boost a healing move and then reverse it with the caduceus?
[12:03 AM] Gadigan: Which would come mid-action
[12:03 AM] Gadigan: You can choose order of effects some of the time
[12:03 AM] Gadigan: Like when you have multiple passive abilities, you can usually pick the order they come into effect.

Ditto multiple passive items or multiple things that trigger activation at the same time
[12:03 AM] Gadigan: It gets really complex sometimes, though
[12:03 AM] Gadigan: Because you can't just choose the order of everything
[12:03 AM] Gadigan: There are steps for certain effect types
[12:04 AM] The One True Pathaky: A first reading of the items makes me think it doesn't work, given the action won't have "heals" when it goes to the damage step
[12:04 AM] Gadigan: And you choose within those bounds
[12:04 AM] The One True Pathaky: I'd love if it did work though!
[12:04 AM] Gadigan: As for RP, yes, you'd be able to invert global life flow with the Caduceus of the Rat King
[12:04 AM] Gadigan: They're similar power-bracket things
[12:04 AM] Gadigan: And yeah, that's my initial reading of it too, path
[12:04 AM] Gadigan: I just didn't want to say for certain without digging out the rules thread and going through it
[12:05 AM] Gadigan: RP wise, though, like I said and Wriggle implied, it's cool in this case
[12:05 AM] The One True Pathaky: And I appreciate that for sure
[12:05 AM] The One True Pathaky: it's a combo that feels good even if the text isn't there
[12:05 AM] Gadigan: Probably wouldn't allow it without a ton of wielder skill if the Caduceus was a weak, non-unique item with that mechanical effect
[12:05 AM] Gadigan: Indeed
[12:06 AM] The One True Pathaky: Before I doublechecked, I thought it was worded more similarly to it's stat-debuff clause-- something similar to "Wielder may convert any healing that wielder would apply into an equal-but-opposite amount of damage", or something similar
[12:06 AM] Gadigan: I think what we may need
[12:06 AM] Gadigan: Is a rules term for what enemy damage values are called, even when they're not on enemies
[12:06 AM] Gadigan: Because they're not the same as Flat Damage mechanically
[12:07 AM] Gadigan: Flat doesn't roll To Hit
[12:07 AM] Gadigan: Enemy attacks do
[12:07 AM] The One True Pathaky: Mechanically the ones I'm looking at for Nole are his Retaliation effects, most prominently on Melek Taus
[12:07 AM] Gadigan: And yes, if the wording was like what Path just put in that quote, it could kick in at a later point and the combination could work mechanically
[12:07 AM] The One True Pathaky: (That's Flat Damage though)
[12:08 AM] Gadigan: Hm. Static Damage instead of Flat Damage. Have we used Static as a mechanical keyword yet?
[12:08 AM] Gadigan: Or do you have any better suggestions?
[12:08 AM] The Nottest of Daves: Static does not appear when I Ctrl+F'd it in the Rules thread
[12:09 AM] The Nottest of Daves: and Static is not a subtype or element in the list
[12:09 AM] Gadigan: Thank you
[12:10 AM] Gadigan: Alright. New ruling:

* Damage values present on standard Enemy-style attacks are considered to be Static Damage.
* Attacks using Static Damage perform damage calculations as though they were Enemy attacks, even if a PC is performing them, but are not inherently considered Flat.
[12:10 AM] Gadigan: That look good?
[12:11 AM] Gadigan: Also:
Any Flat or Static Damage value that is part of an ability or Constant Effect, but not an item, is considered to be a Listed Damage Value.
[12:11 AM] Gadigan: The idea for 'listed damage values' was to not boost modifiers on items or buffs or stuff
[12:12 AM] Gadigan: But increase the values of damage literally listed in the target's info-block
[12:12 AM] Gadigan: Which would be enemy style actions, but also stuff on abilities for PCs
[12:12 AM] The Nottest of Daves: Looks good!
[12:12 AM] Gadigan: But not enhancements
[12:12 AM] Gadigan: Excellent
[12:12 AM] Gadigan: I'll move this whole thing to the mechanical Q&A

[Lord Gadigan]

5:29 PM]The Nottest of Daves: @Gadigan Query on:
* A Private Detective is associated with the classes Gunner, Combatant, Scholar, Diplomat, Protector, Jeweler, Clothier, Chef, Engineer, Commander, Diviner, Gunslinger, Thief, Driver, Captain, General, Warlord, Counselor of Faerie, Roboticist, and Mind Lord. It can only learn abilities from these classes and equip items whose subtypes match with those subtypes associated classes.
[5:29 PM]The Nottest of Daves: Does that mean a standard Private Detective can equip anything that is Psychic element?

[8:11 PM]Gadigan: No. Elements give no equip capability, as the elements aren't subtypes.
[8:15 PM]The Nottest of Daves: Fair enough